Forgiveness

[BawanaRik]

I can't say without a doubt that I would be able to do it either. But I hope I could for my own peace of mind. Some things are hard to know unless I experience it.

Sometimes you're better off not knowing first hand.

 

[1958Bassman]

this is a concept i'm mulling over: if forgiveness is freedom, then forgiveness is inherently a selfish act.

If it allows someone to have a life without bitterness, anger, resentment and hatred toward the person who did wrong, is it really a bad thing? I have to say it's not. The family who forgave must be at peace to a degree many may never know.

 

[bassinplace]

If it allows someone to have a life without bitterness, anger, resentment and hatred toward the person who did wrong, is it really a bad thing? I have to say it's not. The family who forgave must be at peace to a degree many may never know.

Agreed. If you consider the level of pain they must be going through and add anger to it and the pain only gets stronger and deeper. To forgive is to let at least some of the pain go. To change what can be changed.

 

[Milk]

And if you’re a person of faith, the calling is even greater. The gospel of forgiveness isn’t a high calling for the heroic individual, or a counter-cultural description of heavenly perfection. It is a principle central to the gospel itself – the very heart of our faith in which we are called to embody.

Because us non believers are obviously less likely to think that forgiveness is a noble concept that might help both forgiver and forgiven move forward in life? Also, this makes it sound like someone might force themselves to forgive someone just cause their religion says they should.... I don't know, i'd rather do it because i thought it was the right thing to do instead of because i felt my arm twisted by that nagging feeling i'm betraying my religious beliefs.

 

[matante]

Because us non believers are obviously less likely to think that forgiveness is a noble concept that might help both forgiver and forgiven move forward in life? Also, this makes it sound like someone might force themselves to forgive someone just cause their religion says they should.... I don't know, i'd rather do it because i thought it was the right thing to do instead of because i felt my arm twisted by that nagging feeling i'm betraying my religious beliefs.

Forgiveness is more than a concept, and it's nobility is irrelevant.

Don't attach 'religion' to things simply because they deal with faith and/or spirit.

 

[slobake]

Because us non believers are obviously less likely to think that forgiveness is a noble concept that might help both forgiver and forgiven move forward in life? Also, this makes it sound like someone might force themselves to forgive someone just cause their religion says they should.... I don't know, i'd rather do it because i thought it was the right thing to do instead of because i felt my arm twisted by that nagging feeling i'm betraying my religious beliefs.

Your not from around here are you. If you were you would know that Phalex would not think this way.

 

[electracoyote]

I do not believe that a lack of forgiveness is automatically shackled to bitter emotions like hatred and disgust. Unforgiveness is not automatically shackled to vengeance or disdain. There are people in my life who I will not forgive, yet I hold no malice toward them and I wish them no harm. Yet, they occupy a dark space in my heart, the same space where a horrible taste or smell or image would reside. It's more a disappointment, or aversion, or a sadness, rather than anything vindictive.

People can move on in peace, yet refuse to forgive. Failure to forgive does not automatically imply a grudge that weighs on the soul and tarnishes our moral values.

IMHO, some folks simply do not deserve the courtesy of an outward spoken display of forgiveness. Others do. That decision is in the eye of the victim.

 

[96tbird]

Hm. Better people than me. I don't forgive or forget, nor do I seek forgiveness, and I have no use for faith. Of course, I also don't trust anyone or anything, so I can't remember the last time I was in a position in need of my forgiveness.

That's just warm and fuzzy.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I doubt I would consider forgiving someone that killed my child.



Further to that, I don't believe the forgiveness of the parents should have any bearing on the sentence. Although forgiveness was offered by family members, but it doesn't lessen the severity of the crime, and the dead people are not there to speak for themselves.

You think that swayed the judge? 2.5 to 15?

Because us non believers are obviously less likely to think that forgiveness is a noble concept that might help both forgiver and forgiven move forward in life? Also, this makes it sound like someone might force themselves to forgive someone just cause their religion says they should.... I don't know, i'd rather do it because i thought it was the right thing to do instead of because i felt my arm twisted by that nagging feeling i'm betraying my religious beliefs.

I'm pretty sure that was directed at faithful to ponder, not to exclude or negate the non believers opinions. There's a lot of hate in that post. Why. Trying to explain what a compassionate person you are by spewing hate. Weird.


I th

 

[two fingers]

This is in no way as serious as what the people in the article are dealing with, however...

Forgiving really can be freeing. The story is long..... and complicated. Let's leave it at this. My first marriage ended because my wife had an affair with my drummer. Several years later I did a fill-in gig with that drummer..... and he drove us to the gig in his car....... 2 1/2 hour drive...... just me and him. The details are not needed here. But it suffices to say that since then I have felt better. His life has only gotten worse (not something I wished on him by the way). But a weight was lifted off of ME when I let it go. (Hopefully one was lifted from him as well.)

 

[yodedude2]

interesting stuff, thanks.

another perspective i'm considering: forgiveness is a concept, a perfectly selfless attitude, and therefore perfectly unobtainable. from this perspective forgiveness is sacrificial, not selfish.


but in this reality, one can mostly forgive, and mostly forget, but not completely. like gluing together the broken vase: it can be repaired, it can be functional, but it can never be the same as before.

 

[96tbird]

You're right. Sometimes it's better than before. Not in the case which this thread is discussing, but in many other cases.

 

[Phalex]

I think these kids all hung out and the parents had known and liked the young man before the accident.

Empathy and compassion are pretty cool things IMO.

 

[MatticusMania]

Because us non believers are obviously less likely to think that forgiveness is a noble concept that might help both forgiver and forgiven move forward in life? Also, this makes it sound like someone might force themselves to forgive someone just cause their religion says they should.... I don't know, i'd rather do it because i thought it was the right thing to do instead of because i felt my arm twisted by that nagging feeling i'm betraying my religious beliefs.

Im not sure where I fall into the religious spectrum. Im not a practioner of any particular religion, but I do have faith in the natural order of the universe. Some call that God.
But to me, forgiving someone has nothing to do with religious beliefs.
Its just the right thing to do, because my conscience tells me so. I dont like to live with anger or hatred. Id rather forgive someone who has offended or hurt me and move on with my life. I dont allow my offenders space in my head or heart. I learn, I get over things and I move on.

 

[bassinplace]

Im not sure where I fall into the religious spectrum. Im not a practioner of any particular religion, but I do have faith in the natural order of the universe. Some call that God.
But to me, forgiving someone has nothing to do with religious beliefs.
Its just the right thing to do, because my conscience tells me so. I dont like to live with anger or hatred. Id rather forgive someone who has offended or hurt me and move on with my life. I dont allow my offenders space in my head or heart. I learn, I get over things and I move on.

Yep, and the bolded is key to facilitating the following two. That's what life is about for us simple humans, imo. If we can learn from something it makes us stronger. If we can't or won't it'll just break us down. Attachment = suffering.

 

[fhm555]

...Forgiving really can be freeing...

A friend confessed to me that one of her sibs abused her in a most horrible manner when she was a little girl, and she had lived with the shame, doubt, and guilt her entire life.

That sib recently passed and I encouraged her to go before they died and forgive them for what they did to her all those years ago.

She did, and has since commented on more than one occasion how she finally has closure (and peace) on a very painful aspect of her life.

 

[duff beer]

I do not believe that a lack of forgiveness is automatically shackled to bitter emotions like hatred and disgust. Unforgiveness is not automatically shackled to vengeance or disdain. There are people in my life who I will not forgive, yet I hold no malice toward them and I wish them no harm. Yet, they occupy a dark space in my heart, the same space where a horrible taste or smell or image would reside. It's more a disappointment, or aversion, or a sadness, rather than anything vindictive.

People can move on in peace, yet refuse to forgive. Failure to forgive does not automatically imply a grudge that weighs on the soul and tarnishes our moral values.

IMHO, some folks simply do not deserve the courtesy of an outward spoken display of forgiveness. Others do. That decision is in the eye of the victim.

Very well said. I agree 100%.

 

[duff beer]

You think that swayed the judge? 2.5 to 15?

I have no idea what the "standard" sentence is for that crime where you live, so I can't voice an opinion.

 

[Solarmist]

A really inspiring story Phalex - thanks. Forgiveness is the master key.

 

[matante]

If you do not first learn to forgive others, you cannot learn to forgive yourself. That's the way I understand it.

 

[ShredderMaximus]

Since it was created, every time I pass over this thread it instantly gets Don Henley's song "Heart of the Matter" stuck in my head.

Damn you Phalex. Damn you to hell.