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Four bangers on the decline?

#101
bucephylus said:
Just depends on the gig.
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That's totally cool but I think the opposite way, lol. I work my bass into the gig. I could get multiple basses, each one somewhat better suited to a few styles than another but I'd rather just have one bass I can grab for everything so that's what I do. If the song sound good with some sub-E notes then I toss a few in. If not, I don't.
 
#103
Kwesi said:
That's totally cool but I think the opposite way, lol. I work my bass into the gig. I could get multiple basses, each one somewhat better suited to a few styles than another but I'd rather just have one bass I can grab for everything so that's what I do. If the song sound good with some sub-E notes then I toss a few in. If not, I don't.
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Precisely! Just saying the same thing different ways.
 
#105
bassybill said:
If you check out the history of many instruments, "string inflation" (or its equivalent) is a common phenomenon. So we've had six string violins, 9 string guitars, harps with an extra octave or two and church organs that go down to inaudible low notes. In some cases you get extreme examples of this, maybe because some musicians feel that the difficulty they have expressing themselves would be remedied by a few extra notes, rather than development in other ways.

Anyway, these innovations rarely have real lasting power in the grand scheme of things. Who'd want to listen to Coltrane on a contrabass sax for long? The musical instruments that show real longevity are usually the ones that are deceptively simple but capable of true subtlety. I think history will show us that the four string bass belongs in that category.
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Really? Five extra notes (between four and five string) changes the nature of the instrument?? I disagree! I'm not sure that six string is all that different from four, either.

Also -- if you play Freebird (or Havona) just as it is on the record, it doesn't matter whether you've got four strings or eleven.

So, the sax comparison is not a good one.
 
#108
Kwesi said:
Seems like it to me. I can't say if they'll ever go "extinct" but I don't see anyone playing them around where I live. And beyond that it seems like most custom builders are building many more fives than fours. What say you, TB?
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The 4 string bass will not go extinct. But the 5 will continue to gain ground. I will probably never own a 4 string bass again. Unless it was purely for collecting.

The days of the 4 string bass being 99% of the basses out there are gone forever.

I think most of the polls on this forum here show that 35% to 40% of the players here have a 5 as their main bass.

Pretty much every serious bass player who gigs should have at least one 5 string bass. Or have a bass tuned BEAD or DGCF.
 
#109
Ah what the heck, been a while since I been on TB...

Of all the bands (approx 50) I saw in the 3 days I was in Austin, TX during SxSW 2 had 5 string. Our bass player (Lakland DJ5) and a dude in one band played an SR5. All the others played 4. Also, about 80% of them played a P bass, Fender or other...but that's a different thread entirely.

Locally (Tampa, FL), it seems about even. Depends on genre.

We play Acoustic based Roots Rock (ac gtr, el gtr, bass, keys, drums), but I have to say, some of our songs NEED that low B, C, D. It just adds SO MUCH to that part of the song. It wouldn't be the same if our bass player played those songs on 4.
 
#110
Fuzzbass said:
Really? Five extra notes (between four and five string) changes the nature of the instrument?? I disagree! I'm not sure that six string is all that different from four, either.

Also -- if you play Freebird (or Havona) just as it is on the record, it doesn't matter whether you've got four strings or eleven.

So, the sax comparison is not a good one.
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Actually, I think the sax comparison is VERY apt! I see soprano, alto, and tenor saxes all quite regularly, why can't it be the same for bass?
 
#114
Kwesi said:
Actually, I think the sax comparison is VERY apt! I see soprano, alto, and tenor saxes all quite regularly, why can't it be the same for bass?
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It is. You see guitars, and bass guitars. A baritone sax isn't just a tenor sax with some extra keys, its more akin the the different members of the violin family.

Bösendorfer pianos with the extra keys a closer analogy - same instrument, just with some extra notes added on.

EDIT: Well, the extra string on a 5er also allows for lots of different fingering options. Extra keys on a piano, not so much.
 
#115
Fuzzbass said:
Really? Five extra notes (between four and five string) changes the nature of the instrument?? I disagree! I'm not sure that six string is all that different from four, either.

Also -- if you play Freebird (or Havona) just as it is on the record, it doesn't matter whether you've got four strings or eleven.

So, the sax comparison is not a good one.
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What this post tells me is that you only need 4 strings and have no idea what a 5 string or more bass is about. You can always tell that when people start saying "five extra notes" is what the difference in a 5 string bass is.

Which is OK. The 4 string isn't going extinct. Cripes, there are people who still play the LUTE for crying out loud. But the advantages of a 5 or 6 string bass are real and useful. Personally the only 4 strings I own are a couple of my old basses that I never play anymore. And I'd never go back unless I suddenly got into authentic "old school" rock or something. Then, sure, you'd have to do it to give the right historical vibe to the music. Otherwise I live in the modern world.
(note I learned on a 4 and played one for MANY years!)
 
#116
Kwesi said:
Actually, I think the sax comparison is VERY apt! I see soprano, alto, and tenor saxes all quite regularly, why can't it be the same for bass?
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That's because the different saxes each have a completely different timbral voice; and I do mean completely. Also, a sax has a very limited range: only about 2.5 octaves!
(Let's not talk about altissimo here, it's a whole 'nuther can of worms.)


As for the bass debate, 4's vs. 5's, there's lots of great points, and figures, and passion, on both sides. I'm just going to say one thing though, and that is that the Fender Precision Bass has been in continuous production for what, sixty years now? And how long has the Ampeg SVT been around, in more-or-less its original format?

What I'm getting at is, is that some of us (a large proportion, evidently) are just as much creatures of habit as, say, a classical violinist; so while there will always be crazy folks out there on the edge with 20-bazillion string fanned-fret electric violins they program to be played by robots, somebody somewhere is always going to be sawing on the the four gut strings with the old horsehair.

And similarly, no matter how many dudes swear by fives and credit-card sized SS amps, there will always be cats playin' it cool with a four-string and a tube amp.


Don't believe me? We have proof right here! Double Bass Forums - TalkBass Forums
 
#117
R. Laevinus said:
What I'm getting at is, is that some of us (a large proportion, evidently) are just as much creatures of habit as, say, a classical violinist; so while there will always be crazy folks out there on the edge with 20-bazillion string fanned-fret electric violins they program to be played by robots, somebody somewhere is always going to be sawing on the the four gut strings with the old horsehair.
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Of course, the REAL traditionalists will be playing six string viols. :D
 
#119
Kwesi - You mentioned gospel music. I think the five string might be more popular within this particular genre, yes. If you're looking at ALL bass players in the big picture, however, nothing will ever replace the standard four.

Interestingly, this conversation has been going on since the late 80's off and on. It was started initially because boutique luthiers like Fodera were becoming more popular and there were rumblings that the standard-bearer Fender four was on its way out. It never happened and it never will.
 
#120
Handyman said:
Of course, the REAL traditionalists will be playing six string viols. :D
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Indeed! Some instuments, like the octobass and ophicleide, just don't ever seem to catch on in a big way. But I think that most of those that do, 4-string bass included, have staying power.

(Fun fact about saxophones and traditionalism in music, since they have been mentioned: I have never heard of any saxophone player choosing of his/her own free will, to play an original Adolphe Sax saxophone; we all, to a man, use horns that are to the original saxes as boutique 6's are to 51 P's!)
 

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