Fret Board ?

[BurningSkies]

Ten doctors diagnose you with covid, two do not. Who are you going to trust?

We're done here. You've got nothing.

A9X has been a member here for a long long time. Generally he's got a good reputation for providing solid insight. I trust his input more than 'new guy who's been here for two weeks; without a track record but who loves to start fights'.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

There are many species of wood that are also commonly known as "ironwood". Pau Ferro is not one of them.

I thought Pau ferro translates from Portuguese as "Iron Wood"?

 

[Vinny_G]

I find the differences of opinion about Pau Ferro to be amusing. Especially since I encountered one individual who swore that Morado was far superior for tone and appearance. For myself, I prefer Bolivian Rosewood.

Haha For those who didn't get the joke, Morado and Bolivian Rosewood are the other names of Pau Ferro: Pau Ferro | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)

There are many species of wood that are also commonly known as "ironwood". Pau Ferro is not one of them.

Since ferro means iron in Portuguese (and also in Italian, for that matter), it is commonly known as Brazilian ironwood: Libidibia ferrea - Wikipedia

 

[micguy]

Don't you think it could be a difference in density?

Density, when you bring in maple, Pau Ferro, Rosewood, and Ebony, doesn’t seem to correlate to what people hear. Maple is the lightest, ebony the most dense, yet both are bright sounding. Rosewood is in the middle density wise, and dark sounding. It has to be something besides density.

 

[BurningSkies]

About fifteen years ago if memory serves, French luthier Paul Lairat made some of his basses with boxwood fretboards, a very hard wood used for chess pieces. I remember magazine articles from the time saying the feel and tone was similar to ebony.

When I had my Combustion first converted (farmed rosewood board), the luthier used boxwood for inlays. Obviously since they were only line inlays there was no tonal anything, but he thought the hardness would be good. In the end, they didn't glue well with the rosewood, and I had them cut out and the whole neck done in luminlay then the rosewood poly finished.

 

[Vinny_G]

Density, when you bring in maple, Pau Ferro, Rosewood, and Ebony, doesn’t seem to correlate to what people hear. Maple is the lightest, ebony the most dense, yet both are bright sounding. Rosewood is in the middle density wise, and dark sounding. It has to be something besides density.

But maple fretboards are varnished

 

[Marc valero]

My '95 MIM 5 string Jazz bass has a Pau Ferro fretboard and it sounds fine with no issues. Some don't like the lighter shade (appearance) compared to rosewood.

 

[charlie monroe]

There is a long standing rule that Moderator actions are not to be questioned in public.

Does it also follow that Moderator actions can be praised in public?

Whichever one of you guys gave Lagado the boot has earned my thanks. I'm all for spirited discussion, but only with people that will listen and consider opposing views. Job well done, Mods.

 

[Turnaround]

I thought Pau ferro translates from Portuguese as "Iron Wood"?

Literally I think pau ferro translates as "iron stick". Iron wood would be "madeira de ferro". But I'm no Portuguese expert. But when I look up ironwood in wood databases I find maybe 100 species, none of which are Pau Ferro, a.k.a. Machaerium scleroxylon. Funny that.
Regardless Pau Ferro is harder that Hard Maple, but not as hard as Indian Rosewood or Gaboon Ebony, which is the hardest and densest of the four.

 

[Turnaround]

The video is a bit disappointing since it purports to explain how different woods affect tone, but ends up describing what effect the wood has. It's an important distinction since there are those that will claim that the wood does not affect the tone of an electric instrument.

 

[Turnaround]

Here it is from an acoustic guitar designer's perspective and experience.

It's sad but this guitar maker entirely misses the point of tonewood on an electric instrument. He feels that since the acoustic guitar is an air pump, and the electric isn't, the idea of tonewood does not apply. But he is missing the key point that so many miss - that the wood affects the way the string vibrates. The tap test he uses for acoustics demonstrates that different woods react differently to vibrations - some absorbing them more that others. And various woods will absorb different frequencies at different levels than others. And if the wood is absorbing some frequencies it is taking those frequencies out of the strings vibration, thus affecting how the string vibrates. The wood acts as a vibration filter on the string. Remember basic physics - energy is neither created not destroyed, it is only transformed or transferred. Any string energy transferred into the body no longer resides in the string. And the pickup cannot see string vibrations that are not there.

 

[Ewo]

Opinions sure vary on the question of tone woods! (Full disclosure: I'm in the yes-the-wood-matters camp.)

I recall Roger Sadowsky saying he found the fingerboard wood to make the most difference in a bass's sound. And just today I read on the Fodera site that they figure the neck wood makes the most difference, followed by the body, and then the fingerboard.

Hey, OP--FWIW I have a personal anecdote, if it might be helpful. I own two Sandberg TM-5s. Both have the same electronics, and both have ash bodies. One has an Indian rosewood board, the other pau ferro. They're definitely in the same area, tonewise, but the one with pau ferro seems to have just a _bit_ more in the upper mids.

My .02: I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with pau ferro.

 

[blastoff]

this tone wood thread did not disappoint!

 

[Vinny_G]

Either way, once you've put flatwound strings on your bass, it doesn't matter anymore

 

[Hahaha]

I don't like pronouncing it. Pau Ferro. It leaves my mouth feeling unfulfilled. Other than that I have no complaints.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

It's sad but this guitar maker entirely misses the point of tonewood on an electric instrument. He feels that since the acoustic guitar is an air pump, and the electric isn't, the idea of tonewood does not apply. But he is missing the key point that so many miss - that the wood affects the way the string vibrates. The tap test he uses for acoustics demonstrates that different woods react differently to vibrations - some absorbing them more that others. And various woods will absorb different frequencies at different levels than others. And if the wood is absorbing some frequencies it is taking those frequencies out of the strings vibration, thus affecting how the string vibrates. The wood acts as a vibration filter on the string. Remember basic physics - energy is neither created not destroyed, it is only transformed or transferred. Any string energy transferred into the body no longer resides in the string. And the pickup cannot see string vibrations that are not there.

Precisely, and if anyone needs proof that vibration of wood in solid body instruments affects the signal coming out of the jack, it can be provided in two words - dead spots.

I find pau ferro dead spots sound brighter than ebanol dead spots

 

[dkelley]

Yet you've got nothing.

He's not the one who has to supply any further information. He's absolutely correct that the test is meaningless without information related to what was vibrating the instrument in the first place. If it's not a guitar string vibrating it, then what is vibrating it and where is it attached to (the vibrating device)? the nut and the bridge, like a real guitar? and with fretted notes, a given fret and the bridge?

 

[7dollarbologna]

I’m in the camp that there is an affect but it’s like 1%

 

[superiorpine]

Okay boys and girls. Everything impacts tone. Wood, frets, strings, the player. To me, the real issue is not if can you hear the difference while in your isolated studio, but can you hear the difference in the mix? The former can yield differences, however minor. The latter, not as much, all things being equal.

I was agnostic about Pau Ferro until I realized my (now sold) US Masters bass had a Pau Ferro board. Before that experience, I had ebony, rosewood and maple boards. I ended up liking the Pau Ferro the most. The more I played it, the shinier it got. Granted, this was a 20 year old bass, and likely had a high quality piece.

Nonetheless, everyone gets to have their own opinion. And nobody gets to tell anyone else that their own opinion is superior to anyone else's.

That said, Pau Ferro is awesome. It requires no finish, and does not violate any CITEs regulations. Plus, arguably, it is sourced from the Americas and not the rain forest.

End of rant. Have some popcorn and a beer or soda. Peace, and bass players unite!

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Pau Ferro is a great for my fretboards on most all of my Spectors.

Look great, play wonderful. Actually harder than Rosewood.