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Fretless fingerboard coatings

Rowka

Rowka

Dec 9, 2002
388
60
Jacksonville, FL
www.rockstarinfo.com
#1
I've searched here, and on the interwebs at large, looking for the definitive answers for the DIYer on this. This is what I've come up with (basically, a lot more questions than answers).

Application methods:
  • Brush - Simple set up. Minimal cleanup. Coating build-up will follow radius of FB. Potential for brush-bristle FOD. Potential for brush-stroke marks (depending on how well material flows). Potential for air bubbles. Considerable post-cure sanding/polishing.
  • Wipe On - similar to brush.
  • Pour - Build a tape dam around FB and pour material. Simple set up. Minimal cleanup. Maximum post-cure sanding/polishing. Coating buildup will need to be re-radiused (hand sanding with radius block - since the point of these coatings is to provide a hard, abrasion resistant surface, hand sanding to remove a lot of material may prove quite dificult). Potential for air bubbles (but may be able to "torch" them out).
  • Spray - More set up. Maximum cleanup. Minimal post-cure sanding/polishing.

Chemistry
  • Cyanoacrylate (super glue) - Research suggests this is Carvin's Hard-As-Nails FB finish. This is what I used on boalg's neck (though that was fretted and no string wear on the finish is anticipated). Wipe on. Many many many coats. Lots of level sanding and re-coating. Looked great when I was done.
  • Epoxy - What Would Jaco Do? Brush or pour application.
  • Polyester - Same as Pedulla's Diamondkote. Brush or pour.
  • Polyurethane - Automotive clear coat. Spray. Easy peasy. Is it tough enough for a FB coating?

Risks:
  • Is the coating abrasion resistant enough to be long wearing under round wound stings?
  • Is the coating tough enough to not crack or chip due to the wood moving?
  • Does the coating form a good bond to the wood so it doesn't lift or separate (is there a clear primer that should be considered)?
  • The coating will be on the FB only. The back of the neck with be oil and wax. How concerned do I need to be about the coating along the edge of the FB. Likely the weakest part of the system. How to minimize lifting/chipping here?

What haven't I considered?
Success stories?
Horror stories?
Thoughts, concerns, advice?
 
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#3
I had my guitar tech epoxy my hamer CruiseBass fretless and it is great. I use GHS Pressurewounds, but the epoxy gives it a growl like nobody's business. I don't my fretless to sound like an upright bass, I have that covered already. But be aware that you will have a different sound with a coated fingerboard. If you want that then I say go for it!!!
 
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#4
Yes, my purpose for doing this is two fold.
The sound of the coated FB and that the FB is going to be flame maple. Want to protect that wood from the rounds.

b104951f73c552d89738fe44afac6ffc.jpg
 
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#5
I've done the dam and pour method and the brush on, both with epoxy. For those to me the pros/cons are as follows:

Brush On
Pros:
Fast to setup and apply coats
Bubbles can be quickly dealt with using a torch
Cons:
Level between coats or you will get witness lines with products I've used - no "burn in" with these products

Pour
Pros:
Done as one step
No witness lines
Cons:
Setup takes longer to build a dam
Curing must be monitored for longer than with a thinner brush on coating to deal with any air bubbles

If I were to do it again, I would do the pour method based on the above pros/cons. I'd rather put the time into setup than worry about revealing a witness line when levelling the board. At that point it's either ignore the defect or put on another coat, which is probably adding 24-48 hrs of wait time.
 
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#6
Rowka said:
What haven't I considered?
Success stories?
Click to expand...

I used a wax and oil mix (I think it's caruma) on my fretless with Wenge FB to great effect. It was the Invalid Link Removed. Great stuff, really easy to apply. Just wiped on a thin layer and sanded back with progressively finer grits between coats and it filled the open grain in the Wenge pretty well. A few hours curing between the coats is fine for sanding, though it needs a lot longer to fully harden.
So I'd say don't dismiss wax-oils, it was definitely a success!
 
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#8
I had Pedulla apply the diamondkote finish to a Warmouth Jazz bass neck many years ago. Its had roundwounds on it ever since and shows very little wear. I don't know if they still do this kind of custom job, might be worth asking. It gives a very bright mwah, sounds like a Buzzbass as you would expect.
 
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#9
I need to decide what I'm going to do with my axe bass fingerboard. I'll have 2 options, the CA glue, or I have some fiberglass epoxy resin left over from my previous build. I'm tending toward the epoxy resin. It seems easier. Masking tape damn around the fingerboard, pour, dry, and radius. I'm hoping this resin has similar qualities to what everyone else is using (West Systems Epoxy?).
 
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#10
I have a question for you guys that use the damn and pour method. Every time I have tried this, I have cleaned the surface to be taped off excessively, was extra careful to make sure the tape was stuck perfectly with no air bubbles, but the epoxy always ran under the tape. I have used the green lacquer resistant masking tape, as well regular masking tape. I even tried duct tape. How do you guys prevent this from happening?
 
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#12
A lot of pedal builders use Envirotex Lite pourable epoxy on stomp box finishes, so it's pretty bulletproof and dries water clear if you don't want any amber or other tint. You can buy it in small bottles too, which can be tough to find with West System. The mix on Envirotex is 1:1 hardener/resin so it's easy to use.
 
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#13
Yes, I have also used Envirotex with great results although a bit on the soft side and bad witness lines if more than one pour. Scary the first time, but I use a propane torch to pop the bubbles by breaking the surface tension.

Here's a coffee table pour:

I've had several fails using encasing type polyester. Instead use the thin surface treatment type. It results in the hardest surface but polyester is by far the hardest to work with as it's usually meant to have reinforcing cloth added. It smells really bad as well. Wear a respirator if indoors. Polyester is best sprayed on in layers going from sticky to hard formulations. A total pain unless set up for it. I have a very nice Pedulla buzz bass and also a Fender jazz neck Michael did. Top notch work!

For The sake of discussion. I've heard of some using black micro-balloon filler with polyester/epoxy.

 
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#16
Ime polyesther is potentially the clearest and hardest finish. But it is also a lot more demanding. It does not always attach well to oily wood types and there's the "top staying sticky problem" as pointed out in 4to5to6 his link. For me, pouring on epoxy is already difficult enough, but it is do-able and delivers great results.
 
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#17
The poblem is that polyester won't harden with oxygen present. I might not have this exactly right but for the sake of discussion...

A surfacing type of polyester must be used because it contains a wax additive that floats to the top sealing the surface from air. The hobby store casting type of polyester is limited in it's wax content therefore won't harden when applied in a thin layer on a neck. Also, wood is porous and therefore adhesion is effected because of the air present on the bottom, oily woods add to the problem. This is why it's best to spray it on in thin layers with special formulations. Acetone is used as a thinner. The surface wax must also be wiped off with acetone and lightly sanding in between coats. And then there's the fumes! All nasty stuff.

Polyester has awesome properties when applied successfully but it is a pain so I agree, use epoxy.

I've observed that certain epoxy wood glues harden extremely hard. For example, I plan on using "All Wood Glue" on a fretless in the near future. It's not perfectly clear so this may affect the appearance.
 
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#18
Not sure where on TB I read the the thread it was years ago but there was a topic over coatings and rosewood is too soft for fretless and oh my there will be so much damage to the fingerboard blah blah. A member at the time showed pictures of his old P bass with a fretless rosewood board he gigged 4-5 nights a week on for 20 years with no magic coating and yes there were marks but it was just fine.

I'm no fan of coated fretless boards I owned an M5 Pentabuzz and I felt everything sounded the same sort of synthetic and missed my old G&L fretless with an ebony board.

I have however owned a fretless with a Dymondwood board and felt it was the best of everything for fretless. Sort of an in between tone and tough as nails. I am watching some on ebay and hope to build fretless and fretted boards with it. I would love to see pictures of one done with CA though that seems to be the magic sauce all the time building.
 
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