Fretless HalfStatus

[MPU]

I guess that's doable. Needs some testing to find out the right thickness of cf. On this one I mounted the truss rod for "just in case of need" basis.

 

[MPU]

This morning started with sharpening the plane blades. I planed 8mm thick Richlite fingerboard blank to 6mm. Then I tapered the blank, leavin some extra to the G string side. After marking center line and fret positions I used ca/tape trick to glue the fingerboard on a blank for position marker sawing. I found a white plastic can that has 0,7mm thickness. Hacksaw blade is exactly 0,7mm so that will do.

For depth stop I used ca/tape trick again and glued a strip of plastic on the side of the saw blade.

Position marker slots cut, ready for markers.

And markers glued with ca. Trimming the markers later today. I’m drilling side dots after trimming.

 

[JRA]

What do you fretless players say?

i use side dots only, unlined, but that's what i've played since the beginning so it's a hardened preference for me.

according to their own reports: lots of TB fretless players started with lined fingerboards fearing that they wouldn't be able to play in tune. many realized (usually in a few weeks or months) that they weren't having difficulties at all and they regretted not getting an unlined board. some eventually ditched the lines for a clean board. just sayin'.

I’m drilling side dots after trimming.

IMO: you should put the side dots where they belong on a fretless and not between your position markers (as they would be on a fretted, between the frets).
- you'll appreciate the extra visual cue at the critical positions.
- you'll be able to pick up any unlined ax (side dots only) in the future with 'muscle memory' that applies to the new ax!
- they serve no purpose when they're between: they're just a decoration with an audience of one.

cool build, @MPU! you guys kill me with your skills!

 

[Lo-E]

i use side dots only, unlined, but that's what i've played since the beginning so it's a hardened preference for me.

according to their own reports: lots of TB fretless players started with lined fingerboards fearing that they wouldn't be able to play in tune. many realized (usually in a few weeks or months) that they weren't having difficulties at all and they regretted not getting an unlined board. some eventually ditched the lines for a clean board. just sayin'.

This was exactly my experience over 30 years ago. The lined fretless stayed in the arsenal less than a year and the unmarked that replaced it is still with me. The lines distracted me more than they helped me. I play fretted and fretless about 50/50 and now, after all these years, I no longer find lines distracting but they sure messed me up at first.

I’m on the fence about your suggestion to move the side dots…
I guess it makes sense but putting them in the normal (fretted bass) positions would still provide context to the fret lines and that’s the whole reason for the dots on a lined FL or a fretted.

On fretless Rickenbackers, Ric had the genius idea to just put a dot everywhere a fret would have been. It’s the most confusing thing I’ve ever seen (and played). If there are marks everywhere and they’re all the same they cease to have any significance at all.

 

[ctmullins]

Not that my opinion carries much weight, but I’ve done and had both, and I prefer unlined. I can’t see the face of the fingerboard when I play anyway, so the lines don’t help me.

On fretless Rickenbackers, Ric had the genius idea to just put a dot everywhere a fret would have been. It’s the most confusing thing I’ve ever seen (and played). If there are marks everywhere and they’re all the same they cease to have any significance at all.

I like dots at every position. But I put larger dots at the major positions, and smaller ones everywhere else.

 

[ardgedee]

I haven't been able to understand why players get stressed about the positions of the side dots on fretless. I've only ever played basses with side dots of the fretted variety and it hasn't harmed my intonation. Especially when there are still lines indicating where the stops are.

People don't use the side dots as if they're literally where you're supposed to put your fingers, do they? Even on fretted? I've only ever used them to see how far up the neck my hand is.

 

[JRA]

I’m on the fence about your suggestion to move the side dots…
I guess it makes sense but putting them in the normal (fretted bass) positions would still provide context to the fret lines and that’s the whole reason for the dots on a lined FL or a fretted.

On fretless Rickenbackers, Ric had the genius idea to just put a dot everywhere a fret would have been. It’s the most confusing thing I’ve ever seen (and played). If there are marks everywhere and they’re all the same they cease to have any significance at all.

i offered my bit in the previous post because i saw that he already had all the position hashes cut and filled.

i've seen this (which actually made sense to me):
a hash mark (like the OP's position markings) on every position where a fret would be except those positions where a dot should be: every position is marked, but you get an expected dot on 3,5,7,9, 12, etc.

but my main point: do not put side dots on fretless in the fretted positions. that admonition really goes out to the world (i'm looking at you, china! ) --- i realize the builder can do anything he wants, especially if he thinks it will give him an advantage.

 

[JRA]

People don't use the side dots as if they're literally where you're supposed to put your fingers, do they? Even on fretted? I've only ever used them to see how far up the neck my hand is.

unless we're blind, all of us use our eyes for visual cues when playing. sometimes we don't need them, but sometimes they're handy or even essential. our ears are the final judge with a fretless, but our eyes are often the traffic cop.

look at videos of your favorite, sighted fretless hero: they look at their hands/fingers/fb when they need/want to look --- a lot of staring for some passages!

 

[MPU]

I’m sure I’m going to be watching quite a lot no matter how I mark the frets or positions. I looked at different markings and this way looked the best IMO. I think I’m putting the dots beside the fret line and on both sides on 12th and 24th.

 

[MPU]

Here’s my solution for fret and position markers. I was almost mixing epoxy for fingerboard gluing when I remembered that something crucial is missing. I almost forgot Bruceblocks! I have to buy some brass bar and taper the neck and fit it to the body for drilling neck screw holes thru the existing holes and ferrules in the body. I’ve promised to make some stairs and small terraces for a retired colleagues summer cottage so this coming week I’ll have very little time for this bass after Tuesday.

 

[daveman50]

Upright bass players who use dots (and there are more than you might think, including orchestra players) put the dots right on the note. Some do this on the side of the fingerboard at the low end of the bass (even at the first half-step, the F on the E string, in one case I've seen), and on the middle of the fingerboard above the neck heel. It being understood, exactitude is not achievable given variables such as different strings - it's more of a guidepost to where you are on the neck, and you learn the small amount "off" the dots may be.

 

[Lo-E]

I like dots at every position. But I put larger dots at the major positions, and smaller ones everywhere else.

That’s just CRAZY talk!!!

I think I’m putting the dots beside the fret line and on both sides on 12th and 24th.

That’s a clever solution and it looks sharp.

People don't use the side dots as if they're literally where you're supposed to put your fingers, do they?

On fretless I rely on side dots quite heavily, especially in the upper positions. I’m constantly making micro adjustments with my ears but I absolutely need my eyes to get me in the ballpark. I guess my muscles have pretty lousy memory!

 

[JRA]

Upright bass players who use dots (and there are more than you might think, including orchestra players) put the dots right on the note. Some do this on the side of the fingerboard at the low end of the bass (even at the first half-step, the F on the E string, in one case I've seen), and on the middle of the fingerboard above the neck heel. It being understood, exactitude is not achievable given variables such as different strings - it's more of a guidepost to where you are on the neck, and you learn the small amount "off" the dots may be.

FWIW: i do "dot reassignment" on all of my necks/boards:
- the chinese necks require it.
- the licensed necks aren't 'compensated' for me (i like to take some parallax into account if possible, depending on the ax).
- they all get the 'F' first position marking.
- the middle of my finger pad should center on the dot when i view it (or even if i don't look ).
- it's still only a guide and ears always rule!

On fretless I rely on side dots quite heavily, especially in the upper positions. I’m constantly making micro adjustments with my ears but I absolutely need my eyes to get me in the ballpark. I guess my muscles have pretty lousy memory!

nah, your muscles are fine! we all look at what we're doing --- if you have decent enough vision to see a side dot = you're using them as a reference! and the same with jaco, stanley, pino, tony, jack, yada yada. if you've watched those cats play they can all have some pretty intense "studying my board" moments. hey, they're intense players!

sorry, @MPU, for laboring on this topic --- i love your side dots!

 

[Lenny JG]

Player of multiscale/marked/unmarked fretless here.

Lined fretless aren't always filled fret slots.

Your side lines or marks in general at all should all correspond to where the fret on a FRETTED bass would be, and that's where you will place your fingers.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

but my main point: do not put side dots on fretless in the fretted positions.

I disagree with you on this JRA. I build an even mix of fretted and fretless basses. On fretless basses, I've done all the combinations lines and dots over the years. Most of my fretless customers prefer a simple plain board with side dots right on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, etc positions. Right at the fret positions. Those players generally mostly play fretless, and will usually play an entire gig on fretless.

However other customers like the partial white lines, at the fret positions, but with the dots between the lines, at the typical fretted positions. Those players usually mix playing fretted and fretless, often during gigs. They tell me that they like that combo of lines and dots because it keeps the instant visual image the same between their fretted and fretless basses. They are using the dots for quick overall hand position, not individual notes. Same as they do on their fretted bass.

I've also done basses with full or partial white lines and the side dots right on the ends of the lines at 1, 3, 5 etc., like you are suggesting. That works well by itself, if that's your main bass, and you aren't switching frequently to fretted basses.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Most lined fretless aren't filled fret slots, they're just lines. Defretted get filled.

?? We cut the slots the same way as on a fretted bass, and then fill the slots with white plastic or wood or whatever. We builders all do that. We don't just paint the lines on there.

 

[RichterScale]

I don't think he realized what section of the forum he posted in.

 

[Lenny JG]

?? We cut the slots the same way as on a fretted bass, and then fill the slots with white plastic or wood or whatever. We builders all do that. We don't just paint the lines on there.

Okay

 

[JRA]

I disagree with you on this JRA. I build an even mix of fretted and fretless basses. On fretless basses, I've done all the combinations lines and dots over the years. Most of my fretless customers prefer a simple plain board with side dots right on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, etc positions. Those players generally mostly play fretless, and will usually play an entire gig on fretless. However other customers like the partial white lines, but with the dots between the lines, at the typical fretted positions. Those players usually mix playing fretted and fretless, often during gigs. They tell me that they like that combo of lines and dots because it keeps the instant visual image the same between their fretted and fretless basses. They are using the dots for quick overall hand position, not individual notes. Same as they do on their fretted bass.

i see clearly that i once again 'forgot' that not everyone who plays fretless plays one exclusively --- e.g., for entire gigs for entire decades! (i.e., don't own a fretted.)

while i 're-dot' my axes to suit myself, i'd be perfectly fine playing the 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12 you make for your fretless customers. when the factory puts them in the right place i'm fine. my fiddling with them is just to enhance my own playing experience --- there are reasons why a 72-year-old might be looking for a competitive edge!

but you're right: cats who want their 'dots in a row' when switching between fretted and fretless just might want the consistency you mentioned. i rarely consider that 'fretted perspective'.

 

[Lenny JG]

?? We cut the slots the same way as on a fretted bass, and then fill the slots with white plastic or wood or whatever. We builders all do that. We don't just paint the lines on there.

There I made it less offensive to ya. Lol