Fretless - lined or unlined? Let's survey this question..What's your preference?

[Willy-D]

1) are you a regular fretless electric bassist? - yes

2) does the fingerboard or top edge of your favored fretless bass have lines, or is it fully unlined? - both

3) all other things equal, if you bought your next fretless bass from a brand that offered the choice of either a Lined or Unlined fretless neck, which would you purchase? - no preference

4) if you only had the one choice (as with Godin) of your less favored fingerboard preference, from your favored fretless bass brand, would you buy one? - yes

5) Please describe your view on this subject? - the whole topic of which is better seems more a ideological argument than a practical one to me. Having played fretless 35 years, I find I will periodically reference lines if they are there, but don't feel handicapped if they aren't.

 

[Les Ismoor]

I started playing fretless the day after I heard Unorthodox Behaviour, in 1976.

Jaco, who? Actually, I got Jaco when I saw it in a record bin shortly after hearing Percy Jones; as much as I am a fan of Jaco, Percy was first for me. I do have a bunch of albums with Jaco on them, and saw him with Joni Mitchell in 1979 ).

1) Y
2) Unlined
3) Unlined
4) No
5) Everyone has their one personal bent towards this subject, given how subjective it is, so I say "Let sleeping dogs lie about it". My first few fretless basses were originally fretted basses. The first was a 1972 Telecaster Bass that I defretted after hearing Brand X, which BTW, I will be seeing in a couple weekends!!! They are on a reunion tour with Percy, John and Kenwood, along with a "replacement" keyboardist and percussionist. I saw the original Brand X twice in the late '70s, so I did get to see Robin Lumley and Morris Pert back in the day. Phil Collins never toured with Brand X in the US, but I have seen him 7 or 8 times with Genesis from 1973-1977; Bill Bruford was on two of those shows, also. What a thrill to see double drum "solos" between Phil and Bill, together! .

Oh yeah, the other two basses that were fretted and became fretless ones: the second was a 1987 Yamaha BX-5 that I bought new from Westwood Music in Los Angeles (Rick Turner was working there at the time). I had John Carruthers convert it to a fretless and he did a great job with it. He put white styrene lines in the fret slots and mylar tape over the fingerboard; that bass had a great tone with lots of mwah to it.

The second bass that was turned into a fretless was a 1984 Alembic Exploiter I bought used in Cleveland; a local luthier/tech put maple lines in the fret slots and leveled the fingerboard and it too, sang really nicely. Eventually I traded the Alembic, along with a 1987 Alembic Persuader (Vector body) that I also had for my first ZON fretless bass, a 1997 Sonus Special 5 fretless. Later on I got another ZON a Sonus 5/1 fretless bass. I eventually sold both of those, and a fretted ZON Sonus 5/1 that joe did some mod to for me ( I called it the Sonus 5/1.2). I, now, have a Martin Keith Elfin 5 fretless bass that I bought from Martin at the 2010 NAMM Show, and similar fretted one he built for me a year later.

I did, over the past 10 years, also owned a couple of Rick Turner fretless basses, a RB4FL and a RB5FL; they were both lined as that it what was available at the time. Totally unique sounding instruments.

Any future fretless basses will be unlined, I just prefer them that way.

I saw Percy with Brand X a few times. After the first time, I got to spend about an hour or so talking with Percy, and the day after that first show I went out and bought my first fretless P. At one show at Bogart's, John had injured his hand; closed it in a door at the hotel, or something like that, he came onstage with his arm in a sling. Percy and Robin were unleashed that night and covered the loss of guitar nicely.

He also turned me on to dbx compressors- been using a 163x since then.

 

[Jeff Scott]

At one show at Bogart's, John had injured his hand; closed it in a door at the hotel, or something like that, he came onstage with his arm in a sling. Percy and Robin were unleashed that night and covered the loss of guitar nicely.

I was at that show, too! I remember talking with John about his injury.

I have seen Tunnels a bunch of times (and got to know Percy, along with Marc and Sarah), and even did a double bill with them at a show in 2004 in Baltimore. John did one of those Tunnels shows in the early '00s so it was great seeing him play again. At the Baltimore gig, Percy and I had a nice talk about ours aches and pains as we were getting older, and I played his custom Ibanez bass that he had recently gotten. Percy was very intrigued with the SWR BB II I owned at the time.

 

[PauFerro]

I want THIS!

Now THAT is a sensual bass! Looks absolutely beautiful. I bet it sounds good too due to the open grained wood and apparently tung oil finish? I hear that is better for the sound since the finish doesn't mute the sound.

 

[Les Ismoor]

I was at that show, too! I remember talking with John about his injury.

I have seen Tunnels a bunch of times (and got to know Percy, along with Marc and Sarah), and even did a double bill with them at a show in 2004 in Baltimore. John did one of those Tunnels shows in the early '00s so it was great seeing him play again. At the Baltimore gig, Percy and I had a nice talk about ours aches and pains as we were getting older, and I played his custom Ibanez bass that he had recently gotten. Percy was very intrigued with the SWR BB II I owned at the time.

Coolness. I wish the reunion tour was coming closer; the Cleveland show is closest, but on the evening of the 6th anniversary with my girlfriend, and I don't think she'll bite at "Hey, I've got a great idea to celebrate... road trip!".

I've read a bit about his switching to Ibanez (which I thought was bizarre, moving away from the Wal), how was the Ibby to play?

 

[Jeff Scott]

The action was way high on his Ibanez (like close to 1/2" off the end of the fingerboard), when we discussed this Percy said it was the only way he got "his sound". I won't argue with that!

(Note Percy's bass and SWR Workingman's 15 behind me)

Photograph Copyright © SAW 2004 All rights reserved.

Photograph Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2004 All rights reserved.

Photograph Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott 2004 All rights reserved.

Before Percy got that custom bass, he had a red luthite Ibanez bass that he removed the magnetic pickup from and just used the piezos in the bridge. A couple years before the 2004 gig we did together, I asked Percy about the missing pickup; he did not like the tone of it and preferred the piezo, so his custom bass has just piezo pickups in it.

 

[Diddywah]

The same, although I've been tempted to try the Acousticores - or possibly the LaBella Copper Whites on it. I like a little bit of mids in the overall tone.

If you want to try another good string; Pyramid Black Tapewounds! Great on fretless!! (Very different from Labellas) I used to be a big TI Jazz Flats fan too, with my (fretted) Warwick MIG Star Bass....

 

[zontar]

1) are you a regular fretless electric bassist? - Yes

2) does the fingerboard or top edge of your favored fretless bass have lines, or is it fully unlined? - Lined

3) all other things equal, if you bought your next fretless bass from a brand that offered the choice of either a Lined or Unlined fretless neck, which would you purchase? - Doesn't matter now, but it did when I started.

4) if you only had the one choice (as with Godin) of your less favored fingerboard preference, from your favored fretless bass brand, would you buy one? - Yes-I am fine with either at this point

5) Please describe your view on this subject? - lined or unlined doesn't matter to me so much now...

 

[mp40smg]

Fwiw...
I play both.
Currently all of my fretless are lined.

I would like to some day take the training wheels off.

That said.... playing in loud band situation with drums, keys, and two guitars is not the same as playing in a situation with a bass and a piano.

there are many times when I struggle to hear myself at all. And other times where all you can hear is a out of tune guitar, slide player that is way off or the lead vox on a bad (or when they have blown out their voice) night.

At that point the first inclination is to pick up the fretted, and probably the best bet.

But in that situation where the loudest thing you are hearing is out of tune your inclination is to match what your hearing. Lines are a very good thing. So at least you can SEE you're playing a G when you're supposed to be, Even though the guitar player is playing something more like an F##ish and the singer is croaking out something between a Gb# and a Cb/B#. At least having the visual will hopefully get you more in tune with the in tune instruments.

 

[bucephylus]

Fwiw...
I play both.
Currently all of my fretless are lined.

I would like to some day take the training wheels off.

That said.... playing in loud band situation with drums, keys, and two guitars is not the same as playing in a situation with a bass and a piano.

there are many times when I struggle to hear myself at all. And other times where all you can hear is a out of tune guitar, slide player that is way off or the lead vox on a bad (or when they have blown out their voice) night.

At that point the first inclination is to pick up the fretted, and probably the best bet.

But in that situation where the loudest thing you are hearing is out of tune your inclination is to match what your hearing. Lines are a very good thing. So at least you can SEE you're playing a G when you're supposed to be, Even though the guitar player is playing something more like an F##ish and the singer is croaking out something between a Gb# and a Cb/B#. At least having the visual will hopefully get you more in tune with the in tune instruments.

+1 to all except the training wheels reference, IMO/YMMV. I just find that reference to be somewhat uninformed and typically demeaning; though I am NOT saying you have used it in that sense and YMMV.

There certainly are gigs where the fretless can be a challenging selection, lines or not. I do NOT use fretless in bands with heavy guitar wash; because I don't find the result to be worth the effort.

I ran into another case a couple years back when I gigged with a working Big Band that had about 325 charts that they rotated through (had to take 4 of those large 3 ring binders to every gig ), most of which had specific lines that required reading. I actually auditioned (and got the gig) with the fretless; but, that was the last time I took it. I just could not perform that level of sight reading while maintaining pitch accuracy to my satisfaction. I've gigged with Big Bands in the past and always have adored the fretless yin yang with a good horn section. But, those gigs had more normal playlists, ~100 tunes, where I could get to know the tunes well enough to juggle reading and periodic position checks. I don't know; maybe if I'd spent another few seasons on that gig, I might have gotten back to the fretless. Anyhow, heavy up tempo sight reading is another situation where I will take the frets. YMMV

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Am I the only one thinking this should have had a set of POLL questions also?

I did a similar one a while back, if the OP finds the information helpful: Fretless - what kind of markings? * PLEASE RE-VOTE *
.

 

[bucephylus]

Am I the only one thinking this should have had a set of POLL questions also?

I did a similar one a while back, if the OP finds the information helpful: Fretless - what kind of markings? * PLEASE RE-VOTE *
.

I liked that thread of yours. It provided a fairly balanced view of just how many different ways there are of looking at the fretless markings.

It took me quite a while to fully appreciate the different perspectives that different players were dealing with. Definitely a case of one size does NOT fit all.

 

[mp40smg]

+1 to all except the training wheels reference, IMO/YMMV. I just find that reference to be somewhat uninformed and typically demeaning; though I am NOT saying you have used it in that sense and YMMV.

for me.. I fully mean training wheels. As I have found that I need the visual reference.

But in a big band situation, where you have a ton of instruments all going. I can't even imagine how anyone could even call you out on tuning.

"you're out of tune"
"compared to what? the blotto trombone guy #3? trumpet #4 that keeps dropping his horn and not tuning up or deaf as a haddock sax#2 that is so deaf it's 3 hours in and he has not realized his reed split an hour ago and all he is doing is making quacking duck noises?"

 

[godofthunder59]

Unlined!

 

[Rick Turner]

Lined? Unlined? As a builder, I really don't care one way or the other. It's up to the player to decide. We also do "partial lines", just about 1/2" long ending in pearl dots on the bass side of the fingerboard which we call "Exclamatio points". From the front, they're barely visible; from the side they're quite useful. One thing about mostly being a custom shop is that we do whatever the client desires; most prefer lines. Fine...

 

[bobyoung53]

1) are you a regular fretless electric bassist? - no but have been in the past.

2) does the fingerboard or top edge of your favored fretless bass have lines, or is it fully unlined? -Unlined

3) all other things equal, if you bought your next fretless bass from a brand that offered the choice of either a Lined or Unlined fretless neck, which would you purchase? - Unlined

4) if you only had the one choice (as with Godin) of your less favored fingerboard preference, from your favored fretless bass brand, would you buy one? - No, I bought a fretless Jazz some years ago not knowing it was lined, played it for a little while and brought it back.

5) Please describe your view on this subject? -I started on a P bass years ago with only dots on the 3rd 5th 7th etc and still prefer that method and now have a Tony Franklin unlined fretless with dots at 3rd 5th etc. I have a Rick fretless with dots at every fret and it offers no advantage over the Fender style and can get confusing going from the bottom of the neck to the top if you are looking at the side dots.

 

[sirpas]

I would prefer unlined.But my bass wasn't offered as fretless.
So I defretted it.
View attachment 964905
View attachment 964974

For Tune basses, lose the brass nut and go with a bone or Diamond Wood nut. Best decision to mellow out open strings when I needed them.

 

[bassmanford]

MattJ1stc,

With respect to your log # 91,


Your response to Q3 is interesting if only it were true- however it is not technically accurate. The dots on a lined fretless bass do not reflect the spot of correct pitch (at least not on any I have ever played) - the rightmost line (on a RH bass) does reflect the spot of the correct pitch.

However on an unlined fretless bass, the dot is the correct spot.

This very point is why Lined basses drive those that prefer unlined basses crazzzzyyyy.

Ted

1) are you a regular fretless electric bassist? - Yes, have been for many years

2) does the fingerboard or top edge of your favored fretless bass have lines, or is it fully unlined? - My current fretless bass guitar is lined, but I have had others that were unlined.

3) all other things equal, if you bought your next fretless bass from a brand that offered the choice of either a Lined or Unlined fretless neck, which would you purchase? - Cosmetically, I prefer the look of an unlined fretless bass guitar - looks closer to an upright. It makes no difference in playing (lined vs. unlined) as you use the dots on the side of the neck, not the lines on the top. As you progress, you start to know where the notes are (you ears guide you and your fingers eventually learn where to go).

4) if you only had the one choice (as with Godin) of your less favored fingerboard preference, from your favored fretless bass brand, would you buy one? - My current fretless is lined. I would have preferred to have unlined, but that was not an option. Basically, I wanted a fretless version of a fretted bass that I really loved. It was a Lakland Skyline 55-64, and the only fretless option was lined.

5) Please describe your view on this subject? - Cosmetic, as I mentioned before, you shouldn't really be using the lines on the top, use the dots on the side instead.

 

[bassbenj]

MattJ1stc,

With respect to your log # 91,


Your response to Q3 is interesting if only it were true- however it is not technically accurate. The dots on a lined fretless bass do not reflect the spot of correct pitch (at least not on any I have ever played) - the rightmost line (on a RH bass) does reflect the spot of the correct pitch.

However on an unlined fretless bass, the dot is the correct spot.

This very point is why Lined basses drive those that prefer unlined basses crazzzzyyyy.

Ted

Actually my G&L L2500 lined fretless has the dots ON the lines which is where they belong! On that one the dots are actually below the fingerboard in the neck. My Carvin AC50 lined fretless as I noted in a post before has dots between the fret positions which is the fretted place for them. It actually does not drive you crazy because the edges of the lines are easily visible and you just ignore the Dots. My SX fretless is the same way. The deal is that many cheaper makers just leave the frets off their fretted basses and fill the grooves to make a cheap fretless bass. So long as the edges of the lines are visible it's not a real problem. However if lines are dark and hard to see, THEN fretted position dots will drive you nuts in no time!

 

[bucephylus]

Actually my G&L L2500 lined fretless has the dots ON the lines which is where they belong! On that one the dots are actually below the fingerboard in the neck. My Carvin AC50 lined fretless as I noted in a post before has dots between the fret positions which is the fretted place for them. It actually does not drive you crazy because the edges of the lines are easily visible and you just ignore the Dots. My SX fretless is the same way. The deal is that many cheaper makers just leave the frets off their fretted basses and fill the grooves to make a cheap fretless bass. So long as the edges of the lines are visible it's not a real problem. However if lines are dark and hard to see, THEN fretted position dots will drive you nuts in no time!

That's fine. But, dots directly on line edges drive me nuts. Different strokes, no right or wrong. Just whatever each player is used to seeing.

I just got back from NZ. Driving on left hand side of the road. Sounds easy. It's not.