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Fretless-Lined or unlined?

#21
Mushroo said:
If you have to ask, get lines. (In my opinion) there is no disadvantage to having lines, only advantage.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get a lined unless there was also some kind of coating (like a hard plastic or epoxy, etc) on the fingerboard to keep the inserts in (or if the lines are simply painted on). The real problem with most lined basses are they're simply factory "conversions" of the fretted models, with inserts of some kind put in the already-cut fret slots.

They eventually start to work their way out of the wood, especially if you get lots of variation in temp and humidity, causing the wood to shrink and expand. Then you have a real mess on your hands with these things popping up and causing buzzing everywhere......

Unlined eliminates this problem completely...

LS
 
#22
unclejane said:
I wouldn't get a lined unless there was also some kind of coating (like a hard plastic or epoxy, etc) on the fingerboard to keep the inserts in (or if the lines are simply painted on). The real problem with most lined basses are they're simply factory "conversions" of the fretted models, with inserts of some kind put in the already-cut fret slots.

They eventually start to work their way out of the wood, especially if you get lots of variation in temp and humidity, causing the wood to shrink and expand. Then you have a real mess on your hands with these things popping up and causing buzzing everywhere......

Unlined eliminates this problem completely...

LS
Click to expand...

Good point regarding why most stock fretli are lined. Part of why I like the custom folk is that some will use a thicker fingerboard on their fretless models.

Given the abundance of lined basses, I think for the sake of sales, perhaps sales people convinced the masses that lines make them easier.

I'm not condescending in any way when I say if I can play unlined, it's not impossible. Plus, the intimidation factor means people are less likely to pick up your basses and noodle. ;)
 
#24
No-lines looks WAY cooler, IMHO. However, sounding like crap while trying to look cool is about as un-cool as one can get... hence, I went for lines and am happy I did. Though, I am surely not as competent a player as many here are. Perhaps, with MUCH more hard work and practice, I can graduate to an unlined fretless. Though I don't think I could get myself to sell my lined Ray. I've fallen hard for it.
 
#25
SLaPiNFuNK said:
keep in mind, unlined fretless have "fret dots" ON the "fret" along the side of the fingerboard..
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One reason I have a tough time on a lined instrument - I'm used to keying off the side dots. Yesterday I grabbed a lined fretless and was playing stuff perfectly (relatively) intonated - a quarter step flat :D
 
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#26
Lined, especially if you just starting to play fretless.

Learning to play in tune is a lot of hard work. I believe that lines get you up and running quicker and your band will be thankful.

Being out of tune will kill your enthusiasm for the instrument quickly. No matter how well you play, how deep your groove is, it will sound horrible if its out of tune.

Looks cooler without lines? I could give a rats ass, in tune trumps looks cool.
 
#27
nostatic said:
One reason I have a tough time on a lined instrument - I'm used to keying off the side dots. Yesterday I grabbed a lined fretless and was playing stuff perfectly (relatively) intonated - a quarter step flat :D
Click to expand...
Exactly. Most lined boards have identical side marks to the fretted version. So, if a player is accustomed to indexing dots for the stops, you would be in trouble. In this case, of course, one has to index to the line edges; and if that doesn't work for you, then this marking system is going to be a problem.

As I stated earlier, aside from appearances, the player must learn to be comfortable with the marking system. Personal decision.

Humorous sidebar as to how quirky it can be: I am comfortable with and have gigged extensively with both lined and unlined instruments. The one marking system I can not personally do is the Fender one where the dots are placed right on top of the fret line edge. Can't do it. At all. Freeze time. Totally throws me off. And, I recognize there are at the same time cats out there who think that system is great. To each their own.
 
#28
Try to play both. See which you prefer. As you can see, different players (of all levels) have different preferences.
At the top of the genre, Gary Willis plays lined. Steve Bailey plays unlined.
Find out which you prefer.

But if at all possible, don't let cost force the decision.
 
#32
Sorry, but playing one or the other does NOT give anyone "better ears." Pitch discrimination is wired in your DNA. Extensive (as in decades of) research into pitch discrimination produce the same result.

Nice to be enthusiastic about your choice, but let's not mislead people.
 
#33
Research or not, experience has shown me that the less I rely on visual cues the more my other senses take over.

If my intonation is off on a lined fretless, I'd be more likely to use the lines to help me get back on track, whereas with the unlined, it's more of a physical and aural connection with the instrument. Quite an organic and liberating experience.
 
#34
That's you improving your earn by not relying on your eyes as much. Not the bass. A person can rely on their eyes too much and never develop a good ear on a lined or unlined. A person can rely heavily on their eyes and still develop a great ear on a lined or unlined. A person can never look and develop either a great ear or a poor one on either a lined or unlined. Basses are inanimate- they can't make us do anything. All of the skills or deficiencies we develop on our instruments are solely because of ourselves not the instrument.
 
#35
Slapped said:
Research or not, experience has shown me that the less I rely on visual cues the more my other senses take over.

If my intonation is off on a lined fretless, I'd be more likely to use the lines to help me get back on track, whereas with the unlined, it's more of a physical and aural connection with the instrument. Quite an organic and liberating experience.
Click to expand...

Experience has taught me that by the time I hear aural cues that my intonation is off, everyone else has heard the same aural cues. I play by muscle memory and visual references when playing without adequate monitoring (which I am required to do a LOT).
 
#36
spade2you said:
If this were the universal case, unlined players would never be able to progress. I assume most unlined guys had to learn fretless, too.
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:eek:
Anybody that practices hard can progress regardless of lines or no. Relying on your eyes as a starting point is not necessarily a bad thing. Anyone who plays a fretless instrument understands that muscle memory allows us to "know" where the notes are. After playing any note a trillion times, we instinctually know where that note is. Over time one does not need to look anymore.... we know by feel and by our ears.

Having lines allows one to start off "in the ball park". At the end of the day, it's about making a beautiful sound. If that makes it easier, by all means...
 
#37
My fretless teacher started me off practicing slow scales using a digital tuner. If any given tool--ear, eyes, lines, dots, tuner--helps you play 5% more in tune than it is not "cheating" in my book.
 
#38
Dbassmon said:
:eek:
Anybody that practices hard can progress regardless of lines or no. Relying on your eyes as a starting point is not necessarily a bad thing. Anyone who plays a fretless instrument understands that muscle memory allows us to "know" where the notes are. After playing any note a trillion times, we instinctually know where that note is. Over time one does not need to look anymore.... we know by feel and by our ears.

Having lines allows one to start off "in the ball park". At the end of the day, it's about making a beautiful sound. If that makes it easier, by all means...
Click to expand...

You seem to be assuming that I am implying that learning can't happen on lined, which I am not implying.

I hate to "defend" playing unlined, but it's not as impossible and mythical as some are trying to make it sound.
 
#40
spade2you said:
Good point regarding why most stock fretli are lined. Part of why I like the custom folk is that some will use a thicker fingerboard on their fretless models.

Given the abundance of lined basses, I think for the sake of sales, perhaps sales people convinced the masses that lines make them easier.

I'm not condescending in any way when I say if I can play unlined, it's not impossible. Plus, the intimidation factor means people are less likely to pick up your basses and noodle. ;)
Click to expand...

I actually learned the FL on my unlined L2000, so I honestly couldn't say if I'd been able to learn any faster if I'd started on a lined. I've owned 2 lined basses and found them slightly easier to play in tune in the upper registers but harder everywhere else on the neck. Seemed like the lines were always a little off, had to play a little further behind the line here, more on top of it there, etc. Drove me crazy after a while.

I've always intonated the best on my L2000 anyway (maybe because it's the one I learned FL on), better than I could on my lined basses.

Probably the only drawback of unlined is resale. You can't give away an unlined bass, I tried for years to sell my L2K but fortunately failed. I finally came to my senses and decided to keep it, but I never got anyone to come near the thing with their wallet.

You're right about unlined discouraging others from borrowing them. A lined a guitard may try to goof their way through a song or two with, but an unlined and they're totally lost....

LS
 

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