From piano to bass

[J Wilson]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here. I have been playing piano for 9 years. I've learned a lot of music theory, and keep learning. But lately i keep thinking that if i could apply the things i know to a more intimate instrument than the piano that would be awesome. I'm considering cello, or electric fretless bass. Both have pros and cons that I've already considered. But the question that still remains is about translating into bass (or cello) all the music theory learned on piano. All the chords, progressions, inversions, counterpoint, scales, etc. It sounds fine on piano, and it would be amazing to do it on bass. But is it very hard to do? Off course i know every instrument is difficult. Previously to piano i played guitar for many years, but really didn't make much progress. With piano it's been different. And now i daydream about coming back to strings. But as i said, if learning bass is going to be too consuming (given that I'm still working like crazy on piano) maybe it's not a great idea. I don't know if it is reasonable to expect playing something nice in 2 o 3 years, practicing not much everyday, 1 hour top. I know 1 hour is nothing, but piano keeps me very busy. So i would appreciate any advice. Probably the most smart thing will be focussing on piano without distractions. Right? When i started piano i fantasized about playing advanced repertoire, and i regreted all the years spent on guitar. And now that i play advanced repertoire it bores me to death and dream about learning bass. Am i crazy?

I studied classical piano from kindergarten until I graduated high school, but . . . . I decided I'd really rather play bass. So I thought to myself, 'WTH I already know music, I just need to learn to play this bass'. This was in 1977 when I bought my first electric bass guitar (a then brand new Gibson Ripper). This is 2023, and I am still learning.

 

[BobDeRosa]

You obviously like to challenge yourself, but your focus seems to be on process. I'd like to know more about the product -- exactly what you'd like to do as a musician. Where is this all going? What's the big picture?

 

[mrcbass]

I think that keyboards are the best tool for general theory exploration, so you're good there. For the most part theory is theory. Bass specific theory is more about the role of the instrument, than true music theory - but understanding chord progressions, scales and arpeggios is important for every instrument.

An hour a day is plenty to get good enough to gig in a couple of years - if it takes. Bass is not suited for everyone - there just seems to be a different mindset for bassists than other instruments.

I hear good things about Harley Benton instruments, but no first hand knowledge. I'd highly recommend that you try to go to a local store and sit down and try as many as you can - bass is a very personal instrument - you can't just grab any old thing and hope it fits you. Try to find something used that fits you so you can get your money back out of it if it doesn't work out. It's pretty common to lose 50% from the price of a new bass when trying to sell it. I find that it takes longer than standard return intervals to really know if something is working for me.

As previously mentioned, I'd advise that you start with a 4 string. Get yourself acclimated to the feel of the instrument before you go to 6 strings. But yes, if you're going to try to do chords, a 6 string is huge (or a 5 string tuned EADGC). I play 5 strings and found that a 6 string was just too much for me. I'd hate to have you get discouraged by using an instrument that is harder to manage than you need to get started.

I'd also advise that you take at least a few lessons so you can focus on developing good habits. Us self taught guys always have things we need to rework after a while and it takes some much longer to fix bad habits than it does to learn things right the first time.

Coming from even a brief guitar background will obviously help with note ID and general fretting technique. Explore and enjoy!

 

[TK4261]

I think it will be a smooth transition for you. I had about 7 years of piano lessons as a kid and then as a teenager I wanted to play Bass but I am left handed and lefty basses were a bit hard to find back then locally. My Piano teacher said that I already had an advantage to try learn right handed because of already using all my fingers and hands independently from piano. She was right. Learning piano prior to picking up Bass was a blessing to me. You will have an advantage for sure.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here. I have been playing piano for 9 years. I've learned a lot of music theory, and keep learning. But lately i keep thinking that if i could apply the things i know to a more intimate instrument than the piano that would be awesome. I'm considering cello, or electric fretless bass. Both have pros and cons that I've already considered. But the question that still remains is about translating into bass (or cello) all the music theory learned on piano. All the chords, progressions, inversions, counterpoint, scales, etc. It sounds fine on piano, and it would be amazing to do it on bass. But is it very hard to do? course i know every instrument is difficult. Previously to piano i played guitar for many years, but really didn't make much progress. With piano it's been different. And now i daydream about coming back to strings. But as i said, if learning bass is going to be too consuming (given that I'm still working like crazy on piano) maybe it's not a great idea. I don't know if it is reasonable to expect playing something nice in 2 o 3 years, practicing not much everyday, 1 hour top. I know 1 hour is nothing, but piano keeps me very busy. So i would appreciate any advice. Probably the most smart thing will be focussing on piano without distractions. Right? When i started piano i fantasized about playing advanced repertoire, and i regreted all the years spent on guitar. And now that i play advanced repertoire it bores me to death and dream about learning bass. Am i crazy?

Actually, I think you have a huge advantage as a pianist with theory education making the switch. Any instrument will take time to master the technique, but 15 minutes a day 5 days a week you will be up and running before you know it. See, you know what a bass part is supposed to sound like, it’s just a matter of getting the notes out of the bass. You will do great.

I do recommend that you find some other musicians to play with as soon as you feel ready.

Welcome to the board, and best wishes.

 

[57pbass]

My old teacher Darryl Solomon was trained as a pianist and transferred to bass and it became his primary instrument. He toured as a bassist with Ray Charles, Barry Manilow to name a few..
He knew so much theory and it really showed in his tremendous bass playing ability.
He was/is a 4 string player.
He was a great teacher and unfortunately for me I only took a few lessons since he had to go out on tour.

 

[GreyBeard]

I play both. When I was playing upright in a piano trio, I watched Chris's (the piano player) left hand. He would often lead me around by his pinky because he knew a lot of the tunes better than I did. This might give you some idea of what the bass plays but, I would guess that you already knew this. As others have said, get yourself an inexpensive 4 string bass and an amp and give it a whirl. With your background in piano you'll pick it up pretty fast. There are a ton of instructional videos on youtube

 

[cnltb]

I don't think you could have a foundation better than comping from piano, provided you've not oly been 'tinkering'.

 

[jj.833]

Don't be afraid of fretless. It will teach you more than the frets. It's not that hard, and it opens many doors the piano don't.

 

[gumbynotpokey]

Consider a few things for bass...

1. Give the album by the Bill Evans Trio "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" a listen. If not the whole album, then at least Gloria's Step/Take 2. For the most part none of the 3 players are assigned the job of keeping time audibly, Evans plays in the middle and upper register, and Evans deletes the fundamental in the left hand. These three principles open a giant panorama for the bass.
2. "Think upright, play electric." As a principle, this can help define a creative space (what is played, and/or the overall aesthetic).
3. Not to give cartoon-like or overly-predictable input but listen to Tina playing on the Talking Heads number "Psycho Killer", John playing on the track by The Who titled "The Real Me", and Chris playing on the Yes number titled "Long Distance Runaround". These are great examples to me of different roles bass can assume in a track. Another would be Ron's parts on any track in the Miles Davis album ESP.

Your academic and applied preparation position you beautifully to rock it.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Everything you have learned on Piano will help with any other instrument but to go from 88 strings down to 4? IMO, that's more restrictive than intimate. Blasphemy in here I know, but I'd still rather listen to a solo Pianist than Bassist. The piano takes the lead in the composition realm as well.

 

[Fynn]

I actually thought about the big differences between piano and bass recently. And I've come to the conclusion that you can just do way more with a piano than a bass guitar. But I still prefer the plucked stringed instruments (for many reasons, but timbre might be one of the biggest).
I think the most noticable and important difference between a bass guitar and a piano are the chordal (is that even the correct word in this instance?) capabilities. You can very easily play huge chords on a piano, that you could never do on a bass. On the bass you're pretty much limited to 4 note chords, and very often you only really want triads at most, because 4 note chords tend to become pretty muddy.
But it's not all bad and misery in bass land! One distinct advantage you have with bass guitar (and really any guitar like instrument), is the fact that intervals are really really easy. Not only can you choose between different strings with the same notes to do intervals, but you can also use the same shape for an interval all over the neck. So doing complicated melodies can be easier on the bass, at least in terms of finger reach, and player comfort.

Fretless bass especially has another distinct difference to a piano (that is also shared amongst all fretless instruments), and that is the fact that you can make any note as sharp or flat as possible. That allows you to obviously make chords sound more pleasant, and allows you to differentiate between notes, that usually don't get differentiated between in a twelve tone equal tuned instrument. Like how a violinist might differentiate between an A# and a B#, even though on a modern tuned piano they're the exact same frequency!

 

[micguy]

No one can guarantee that any particular amount of practice will get you there. Try it out.

What we can guarantee is that, playing an instrument that inspires you to the point where you want to practice (and therefore practice a lot) is the road that gives you the best chance of success.

There is nothing wrong with having a lot of music theory knowledge - you can apply that on any instrument. What you need in addition that that is a good musical ear, which you don't get from any book - you have to spend a lot of time with your chosen instrument to get that.

Both piano and bass are instruments where, if you become proficient, there will be a lot of demand for your talents.

 

[micguy]

Everything you have learned on Piano will help with any other instrument but to go from 88 strings down to 4? IMO, that's more restrictive than intimate.

Piano has 200 plus strings, but the bass in my lap has 22 frets, and 5 strings. Adding in the open notes, there are more places where I can play a note (115) than there are keys on a piano. On a 4 string bass, it's essentially a tie.

On a piano, you have the choice of when to play a note, how hard, and how long to hold it - that's it - you can make a player piano that can reproduce your performance perfectly (using a computer to drive the thing) with very few variables. On a bass, you have multiple places where you can play a note (each with a different timbre), unlimited ways of plucking the darn thing (using various appendiges or plectra), you can glissando, you can bend notes, you can do harmonics, you can add intentional fret clank, you can do hammerons and pull offs. Anyone that thinks a bass is somehow more "restrictive" of an instrument than a piano hasn't really thought it through - we have more degrees of freedom to create with than a pianist.

 

[soap]

Hi. So many responses. I appreciate very much your tips. You are a very warm community.

As many have pointed out that 6 strings and fretless is not the best way for learning, i will consider that. I don't want to injure my hand stretching too much, so I'll look into 4 and 5 strings, or maybe i restrict myself to play with right hand on the lower strings. Regarding fretless, i think I'll help myself doing as cello begginers: putting stickers on the fingerboard, playing just scales and simple melodies (like twinkle twinkle) for the first years, and staying at 1st position for many many months.

Besides that, do i need to care about strings? I'm reading that many people changes them when buying a new instrument. But for a total begginer, can i get away learning the basics with whatever strings come with the bass, until my touch and ear are developed, or a bad set of strings is going to be a hindrance from the very beggining?

 

[GreyBeard]

Hi. So many responses. I appreciate very much your tips. You are a very warm community.

As many have pointed out that 6 strings and fretless is not the best way for learning, i will consider that. I don't want to injure my hand stretching too much, so I'll look into 4 and 5 strings, or maybe i restrict myself to play with right hand on the lower strings. Regarding fretless, i think I'll help myself doing as cello begginers: putting stickers on the fingerboard, playing just scales and simple melodies (like twinkle twinkle) for the first years, and staying at 1st position for many many months.

Besides that, do i need to care about strings? I'm reading that many people changes them when buying a new instrument. But for a total begginer, can i get away learning the basics with whatever strings come with the bass, until my touch and ear are developed, or a bad set of strings is going to be a hindrance from the very beggining?

Yes

 

[SteveHeissner]

Perfect. I took piano lessons as a kid. When I decided to play bass in my late 20's the transition was seamless. You could keep playing piano and get a bass to just play some scales and easy songs at first to supplement your piano playing. Then if you decide to put more time into playing bass in the future, you can do that. Good luck.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Anyone that thinks a bass is somehow more "restrictive" of an instrument than a piano hasn't really thought it through - we have more degrees of freedom to create with than a pianist.

I started paying bass in the late 70's. IMO, the best music ever composed was and still is being done so on a Piano, going back hundreds of years ago up to contemporary times. I've had ample time to think it through and among the masses it's not even debatable.

 

[micguy]

I started paying bass in the late 70's. IMO, the best music ever composed was and still is being done so on a Piano, going back hundreds of years ago up to contemporary times. I've had ample time to think it through and among the masses it's not even debatable.

OK, so you started playing music a decade or so after me, but that's not the point. The piano is a great compositional tool, but that's also not the point of my post - you're talking about something different than I was (or what you said in your post). A piano is fundamentally more limited in terms of creative degrees of freedom than a string instrument like a bass or guitar.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

I'll agree to dis-agree here. I'll review my comments after a few cold ones tonight. Have a good weekend.