• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Frustrated with tuning machine size

P

prophetdaniel2

Jan 21, 2011
68
7
#1
Is it just me or are bass tuning machines just plain oversized? Do they really need to be so large?
To clarify, I don't necessarily mean weight, i just wish the keys were smaller and didn't protrude so far away from the gearbox.
I imagine there are reasons for the contemporary design, but maybe not..?
 
#2
Size=leverage=power=ease of tuning
Get a med. gauge 6 set .30-.130/.135 and try bringing each string to working tension w/ a guitar tuner. If the tuner doesn't break, your hand probably won't be useful for the rest of the day. Then try marketing/selling that to a customer. Even w/ speed winders, fine-tuning a bass string requires finesse and ease, eg, see my first statement. Acronyms.

EDIT: Sorry. That came out waaayyy snarkier than intended. I was dealing w/ my 4 yr. old and was just trying to wrap it up.

Rob
:bassist:
 
#3
I'm certain the gear ratio would need to be changed to accomplish a significant reduction in size.
I have contemplated swapping guitar keys onto a bass machine body, but have yet to do it.. Most of the machines on my basses don't "feel" like they carry that much tension and the larger key wings are easily bumped out of tune as well..it may be time to explore this possibility...

No worries on the inadvertent snark, I have kids too!
 
#4
prophetdaniel2 said:
Most of the machines on my basses don't "feel" like they carry that much tension...
Click to expand...

This was point. Granted, I'm not quite sure what you're doing, but a large lever applied to the proper gear make the task easy. Maybe a good analogy would be there's a reason the handle on a ratchet is 6" long.

But either way, good luck w/ your project. Hope everything work out just the way YOU want it to!

Rob
:bassist:
 
#5
Hi.

prophetdaniel2 said:
This seems like an ideal size to me. These are just string anchors to accommodate standard strings with headless hardware, but if they were functional tuners.... Yumm!!
Click to expand...

Something's missing...

Like a pic ;).

EDIT: And now the post is missing as well???


The leverage is one thing, but that can be remedied with higher gear ratio. Or using a wrench of some sorts to do the tuning.

On cloverleaf tuners You can use a hacksaw and a file to reshape the shape to your liking, and with some washers/spacers, at least the GOTOH buttons are (were?) interchangeable between the guitar and bass tuners.

Steinberger tuners for Firebirds is one take on the more elegant tuners as well.

Regards
Sam
 
#9
I never liked the large, Fender-style cloverleaf tuners that were once standard on every bass (and still standard on quite a few). I much prefer the smaller, modern ones like the Schaller M4 and the Gotoh GB7. They work great!
 
#13
Jazz Ad said:
Sperzel are very small and to me, the best tuners on the market.
Regular Gotoh/Schaller are bigger but not so much.
Fender style is humongous but it fits P and J's basic looks just fine.
Click to expand...


I would disagree on the Sperzels. I used a set on a 5 string, the D string (lots of tension on the D string) in particular seems excessively hard to turn.

I will stick to Hipshot or Gotoh if budget is low from now on. I don't see much benefit in locking tuners anyway.
 
#15
I tried Sperzels a few times and I did like them but I stopped using them for one reason: they are locking tuners and don't require wrapping the string around the post multiple times as other tuners do. They work best when the string is trimmed to a shorter length than usual.

I swap strings and pickups between basses quite often, looking for optimal combinations, and after swapping strings onto Sperzels, I couldn't put them back on basses with the other types of tuners such as Gotohs again.

The Sperzels would be great if you weren't experimenting with strings much and simply wanted to get a fresh set of your favorite strings on a bass quickly.

A couple of times, I have used Grovers as an upgrade because the backplate mounting hole pattern lined up well with the stock
Fender or Squier tuner hole patterns. I like the Grovers - they're well made and they aren't wicked expensive.
 
#17
Jazz Ad said:
The torque is adjustable through a screw on Sperzel, if can be tuned to your taste if you find them too hard.
Hipshot, Gotoh and Sperzel are amongst the most expensive tuners on the market.
What exactly do you use if budget is high?
Click to expand...

Gotoh seales tuners are much cheaper than Hipshots. I use Gotohs when budget is a concern. After a very good customer service experience with Grover, I may very well be using their products in the future.

Where is the screw you are talking about on the sperzels located? I have never noticed it.
 
#18
Hi.

Jazz Ad said:
The torque is adjustable through a screw on Sperzel, if can be tuned to your taste if you find them too hard.
Click to expand...

Without changing the geometry of the gearing, changing the torque/force transfer is impossible.

What You may be referring to, is the very common friction adjustment on almost every closed style tuner that determines how much resistance to turning the worm gear shaft has.

Since the said adjustment has another function as well, loosening or tightening it will adjust the play between the worm and the wheel. A happy medium is sometimes hard (or impossible) to find with cheap tuners.

Because in a regular 1-start worm gear the worm can drive the wheel, but the wheel can't drive the worm under any circumstances, if the torque in the tuner post & the wheel exceeds the material strenght then something gives.
9 times out of 10 it's the softer wheel teeth or its splines.

Regards
Sam
 
#20
The gear ratios on the compact Gotohs and Hipshot Ultralites work well- both are very easy turning/tuning machines with smaller keys. Hipshots are my favorite all-around, but the Gotoh sealed tuners are the smoothest turning machines, IME.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back