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Frustration with drummer.
- Thread starter bumperbass
- Start date
It blows my mind how many musicians want to drag other musicians down, especially in a case where this person just wants to put on the best performance possible. A live band is not a record, but there is whole musician economy based on tribute and cover bands. This is a long way from spinning a record. A live band puts on a show and has the push and pull interaction with each other and the audience that cant be replicated. What about this confronts you?
If you have a different musical path, then good for you. But lets not talk professional musicians out of existence. The OP has the work ethic of a musician who gets studio work and fill in work because you will get a reliable performance.
The songs op mentioned are all so simple, the drummer would have to be going full animal drunk drumming before the drum part would seem "off" to the point of interfering with my bass part. Adapt. Or leave. IMHO FWIW Learn to anticipate his kick, and land your fills and accents accordingly. That is what I would do, and I think most bass players would as well.
As Chet Baker once said, "it takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer at all". That being said, I am entering my 60's, and after many years of just playing double bass, I re-entered the world of rock and roll and starting playing bass guitar in a band that plays dances. The audience wants to hear music from the 60's and 70's, and IMHO, the main job of the rhythm section is to get them up on the dance floor and keep them there. I would respectfully suggest that according to the description of the other members in the group, you are already ahead of the curve with the band's musicianship. If the drummer keeps good time and is not a head case, shows up on time and is sober, you should be happy. You sound like you are probably around my age, and I assume the rest of the band is as well, so it is not likely that at this stage of the game the drummer is going to change the way he plays. If you and the band members get along and are friends, I wouldn't complain. It could be much worse. If you become too much of an irritant, they could decide to change the bass player as opposed to trying to get the drummer to change his technique.
Lengthen your strap, get a hard pick, and just play steady 8th notes all down stroke, all roots, all first position.
So many bass players do this. I always think these are the guys that turned to bass because they were on guitar but there was a better guitarist so they were like "Oh ok guess I will play bass" and give it the old "cool rhythm guitarist" treatment.
I agree. And probably the main reason why I never had much of a desire to play covers even if the songs were by my favorite bands.
It's easy for drummers to mail it in, and a lot of them do. Especially when you get a guy who does a lot of original work and put him in a cover band. Then, not only must he play confidently and in time, but also must notice and replicate the subtleties of the drum parts that identify the cover songs.
Example - "Need You Tonight" by INXS. Drummer can get away with a very sparse backbeat there, but the little rimshot pattern is what makes that song what it is. Many guys I've played with ignore it.
And that is where a lot of otherwise good guys fall down. They simply aren't accustomed to putting in the time to learn the songs the way we have to.
If I were you, I'd tell the guy that the songs you're playing have very specific drum parts that help make them what they are, and that he isn't playing them. Pick a couple concrete examples and ask if he is willing to go back and shed them before the next rehearsal.
Example - "Need You Tonight" by INXS. Drummer can get away with a very sparse backbeat there, but the little rimshot pattern is what makes that song what it is. Many guys I've played with ignore it.
And that is where a lot of otherwise good guys fall down. They simply aren't accustomed to putting in the time to learn the songs the way we have to.
If I were you, I'd tell the guy that the songs you're playing have very specific drum parts that help make them what they are, and that he isn't playing them. Pick a couple concrete examples and ask if he is willing to go back and shed them before the next rehearsal.
I agree that doing a perfect cover of a song does not make a perfect band. However, I often heard the excuse that "we're not a jukebox" used in order to cover the fact that the way the band is doing a song is fundamentally flawed, incorrect, and/or sloppy. it's just that - an excuse. heard it too many times. Had a BL tell me that his version of Every Rose was "just fine" even though I pointed out that literally his chord progression in the chorus was simply wrong and sounded bad. He was like, "I don't care. we're not a jukebox". huh?
Completely agree. The defining part of almost any song is the vocal. Bass players and guitar players overestimate their worth to the average piece of pop music, and every single song you mentioned is a prime example of a song where the bass (and even drums) means very little. And the drums are so straight forward simple that unless he was trying to add major swing elements or playing a fill every two bars that fell out of time and suddenly the down beat was in the wrong place, I can’t see the issue. It’s not like you are playing “good times bad times” where the drum beat was a definitive song element. The drum beats in those songs are placeholders for the vocal.
As someone alluded to earlier but you seemed to miss the point, the common thread with all the other bands you couldn’t tolerate is yourself.
As the late, great, wise Dale Carnegie once wrote:
“Do you know someone you would like to change and regulate and improve? Good! That is fine. I am all in favor of it. But why not start with yourself? From a purely selfish standpoint, that is a lot more profitable than trying to improve others - yes, and a lot less dangerous.”
First of all I don't think this is a question of player covers note for note or providing interpretations. This is about the drummer not getting the basic beat for a song.
Also, I am not surprised no one else in the band noticed. Recently with some guys I've played with previously we tried to put together a project playing classic blues rock stuff, ZZ Top, Statesboro Blues, Tore Down and a bunch of similar shuffle style songs. The drummer, who was new to us was a straight ahead 80s punk rocker. Every song was too fast and with not a semblance of a shuffle. It was painful for me and the drummer never attempted to lock in, he kept his head down and the steady fast beat going.
I was the only one that noticed, the others probably would have noticed later had we recorded and played back but they were too busy with their own stuff to notice at the time.
That was a short lived project.
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I have a computer in my rehearsal space that's hooked up to the PA. When there's a question about arrangement on a cover tune, we will just listen to the tune and remind ourselves how it's supposed to go. You can also do this with a phone held up to a mic. In this case I might just say, "I'm not sure we've got the arrangement right, let's listen to it," and then bring the tune up and say "I think I'm hearing something a little different on the kick there," then play the pattern along with the recording so the drummer can hear what I'm talking about.
didn't read all of the posts!
good luck being a musician...who can adapt!
i would expect to be able to alter any bass part in order to lock in with the drummer's right foot. what i would not do is this:
good luck being a musician...who can adapt!
I agree whole heartedly with the Dale Carnagie quote. But I'll push back on this:
Music is making order out of chaos. For any given song there are defining rules that make that song the song it is. It is not limited to vocals. For cover bands, the interpretation is somewhat open. As an example, My City is Gone - Pretenders, the bass line is defining.
My gut reaction is the OP appears to be too rigid. Definitely work on tightening up the bass and kick drum. It'll be about the improvement you make. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. Last night I was cranky and tired at rehearsal and a bit of an a-hole, I 'm sure. But man was I biting my tongue. I had done my work where others had not. Cool song though, That Moon Song.
Music is making order out of chaos. For any given song there are defining rules that make that song the song it is. It is not limited to vocals. For cover bands, the interpretation is somewhat open. As an example, My City is Gone - Pretenders, the bass line is defining.
My gut reaction is the OP appears to be too rigid. Definitely work on tightening up the bass and kick drum. It'll be about the improvement you make. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. Last night I was cranky and tired at rehearsal and a bit of an a-hole, I 'm sure. But man was I biting my tongue. I had done my work where others had not. Cool song though, That Moon Song.
yeah, this is tough. I've been stuck with a drummer that didn't understand groove and pocket and it's a bear to deal with. Probably the only solution is to play the tunes with the drummer (at practice), just you and him. If he doesn't hear that he isn't locking, then you may need to get another drummer. If the rest of the band doesn't hear the problem, then you need to find another band.
And I agree with the OP - some tunes, you just gotta lay down the recorded groove. At least until the bass and drums get to where they understand what makes that groove happen and can improvise within the groove. What he is dealing with is kind of like somebody trying to play Cissy Strut with a 4/4 kick. Ain't gonna happen
And I agree with the OP - some tunes, you just gotta lay down the recorded groove. At least until the bass and drums get to where they understand what makes that groove happen and can improvise within the groove. What he is dealing with is kind of like somebody trying to play Cissy Strut with a 4/4 kick. Ain't gonna happen
Record a practice session. It doesn't have to be a great recording but one that at least can pick up the bass drum decently. Play a couple songs back to the band after practice. Anyone (in the band) with half a wit will notice that the song(s) don't sound right. If they don't notice, pack it up and go!
if you are in a tribute band then people will expect a note for note, beat for beat ,carbon copy of the song they know on the album. If you are in a cover band the vast majority of people playing regularly will use the original version of the song as a general guideline so it could be faster, slower, longer shorter etc. Make the song yours.
IME most people who are hardcore about note for note duplication of songs usually dont play out that often or have a reputation in the musical community as being difficult to work with. my two cents
IME most people who are hardcore about note for note duplication of songs usually dont play out that often or have a reputation in the musical community as being difficult to work with. my two cents
Well... It blows my mind how butt-hurt some of you guys get over meaningless discussions on a forum. Thanks so much for explaining the difference between live and Memorex. I would have never guessed...
How is a comment on Talkbass going to "talk professional musicians out of existence?" Also... *** do you mean by "confronts you?" Are you trying to come up with a clever synonym for "triggered?"
