I know I sound great with a fantastic drummer and I sound like I have no business being on stage if I'm playing with a really bad drummer. It makes all the difference in the world.
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Frustration with drummer.
- Thread starter bumperbass
- Start date
Here's my take....
Just explain to them that its cheaper for everybody to just learn the songs properly, at home, on their own. I've done a number of shows in tribute bands where we'll do a show after 6 months of not rehearsing at all and we're fine......because we play the songs exactly like the recording.
If the drummer wants to deviate from whats written, you will all need to put in the time, effort, and money to rehearse more often to tighten up.
Simply not worth it to do it that way.
FWIW, would be TOTALLY different if you were an originals band looking to redo a song for fun.
Just explain to them that its cheaper for everybody to just learn the songs properly, at home, on their own. I've done a number of shows in tribute bands where we'll do a show after 6 months of not rehearsing at all and we're fine......because we play the songs exactly like the recording.
If the drummer wants to deviate from whats written, you will all need to put in the time, effort, and money to rehearse more often to tighten up.
Simply not worth it to do it that way.
FWIW, would be TOTALLY different if you were an originals band looking to redo a song for fun.
I’ve been at this a long time too. And I can agree with you. But only up to a point. There’s a place for showing respect for the art and craft. And also for maintaining the modicum of self respect necessary to want to play to the best of your ability at all times. But there’s also a place for flexibility snd creativity. Balancing the two is where the challenge lies. Because it’s easy to elevate our craft over the art, and vice-versa.
And just for the record, I’ve yet to meet a drummer who would be trying to lay the drumline of Louie Louie over Come Together - even if 90% of the bass players I’ve heard covering that song do it “incorrectly” vis-a-vis the original recording.
My earlier post tried to politely say I thought you were kind of coming across as being a little pedantic about covering songs. Being ready to walk out after the first rehersal for the reasons given seemed a little excessive to me. But maybe the drummer situations you’ve been exposed to are a little more severe where you are than you let on, and you sound more inflexible at times than you actually are. Frustration can do that to you. Been there myself more than a few times so I can understand.
I’m guessing I’d drive you crazy if I were in a band with you. Because I have a tendency to “correct” what I think are technical mistakes or bad calls in the original bass lines on many recordings. Arrogant of me I know. But my personal issue is with playing things I feel are musically “wrong.”
I guess we all have our own little hangups.
First, unless you're doing tribute band it's not uncommon for cover bands to take a lot of licenses with songs. It can be part of the fun of doing cover band gigs. Signature stuff is left in tact, but most everything else is open to interpretation based on desires, skill levels and dedication. Personally, I don't do note for note covers and don't expect to have my final lines developed until after I've played it with THAT group of people. I prepare to be able to get through a song competently and then prepare a few ideas to advance the lines, but don't lock into anything. After we've jammed and I know where the holes are - or where it gets congested - and I start dialing my stuff in to fit that situation. Being flexible is just part of the job IMO.
Maybe you just have a weak talent pool in your area, but it's hard to imagine that 4 of 4 drummers were that much of a problem to play with. I've worked out with 3 other cover bands: 2 of 4 (including my current drummer were barely passable, but the other two are great. I've auditioned with 4 or 5 other cover bands and only one drummer amongst them were not at least acceptable. I've played with 3 drummers on the jazz side of my plate: one of them was inoperable. Maybe I'm lucky, but over 50% of drummers I've played with were at least competent if not awesome.
Don't mean to be mean, but is it possible it's not the drummer? Don't know you, never heard you play, but it seems odd you consistently have this problem. I could be completely off base, and no offense intended, but maybe you'd benefit from a little self scrutiny: "Could I be doing something different?"
Maybe you just have a weak talent pool in your area, but it's hard to imagine that 4 of 4 drummers were that much of a problem to play with. I've worked out with 3 other cover bands: 2 of 4 (including my current drummer were barely passable, but the other two are great. I've auditioned with 4 or 5 other cover bands and only one drummer amongst them were not at least acceptable. I've played with 3 drummers on the jazz side of my plate: one of them was inoperable. Maybe I'm lucky, but over 50% of drummers I've played with were at least competent if not awesome.
I love to lock in with the drummer and dig a groove so deep that we have to take a canary down with us to make sure the air is safe to breathe! I have never thrown a fit over the drummer's kick drum being different from the kick drum on the record. The drummer is almost always my best friend in the band, because we are a team, driving that bus together. @bumperbass, I detect ZERO teamwork in your attitude, but then, what do I know? Only been doing this for 45+ years, and getting paid to do it...
You're gonna have a bad time for the rest of your life.
I’m guessing I’d drive you crazy if I were in a band with you. Because I have a tendency to “correct” what I think are technical mistakes or bad calls in the original bass lines on many recordings. Arrogant of me I know. But my personal issue is with playing things I feel are musically “wrong.”
I guess we all have our own little hangups.
Ha! There's a place in Steely Dan's "Home at Last" where Bernard Purdie is consistently throwing a little hiccup out in the beat that Chuck Rainey misses over and over again. Maybe they tracked it at different times, maybe Rainey tracked to a different take, but it's clear as day and, as much as I worship Rainey, when I play it I lock in with Purdie's beat. Even the greats missed a creative opportunity now and then.
The question for the OP might be whether or not everyone else in the band is on the same page with regard to doing note-for-note covers. There are so many songs that cover bands typically play differently than the original recording because most of them just don't listen that well or put that level of work into it. How many of the countless bassists out there playing Mustang Sally are actually playing what was on the record? Not many that I've heard.
imho This!
Best using ears without any preconceived note for noteness.
Get the essence of the song and keep a groove. Throw in the key lines,
If drummer cant 'keep time' then certainly a problem.
there is more than 1 right way ... the old 45's might be different than the Lp version ,... or the live version ..?? = adapt
a Tribute band might play note for note ... cover band - whatever
ask the drummer if he actually ever listened to the songs .?
or ask if he likes a certain groove on ' whatever ' ...
we all have different interpretations of art .. !
a Tribute band might play note for note ... cover band - whatever
ask the drummer if he actually ever listened to the songs .?
or ask if he likes a certain groove on ' whatever ' ...
we all have different interpretations of art .. !
I admit I didn’t read all 6 pages, but I am confused as to whether the issue is tempo or pattern. Either one can be a problem, but they have different considerations. As far as kick drum pattern, I can see why this would be very difficult if you want to perform the song close to the original. To lock in, you would need to change the feel of the song. For this, I would simply stop the song and correct the drummer. If he thinks differently, you can have a frank discussion about the merits of either approach. If the bpm is wrong, decide on a bpm and use an app for reference right before starting the song until it’s right without it. I’m not here to pass judgment on whether you should want to sound like the original, that is your right and perogative and there is certainly a market for it.
How is it possible for a drummer "who has a good reputation around here" to screw up those songs? I mean, we're not talking about "The Black Page" here. I'm guessing that he just didn't know them or didn't spend any time at all on them, which is definitely annoying. HOWEVER, if he actually is a decent drummer, I'm guessing that this problem can be corrected in the next couple of rehearsals. Personally, I would learn and play the bass lines as recorded, and if the full-band version sounds bad, I'd just point it out to everyone. Pull out your phone and play the song for them (or, more specifically, for him). And you don't have to be a dick about it, at all. If the guy is a normal, adaptable human being (and yes, I know--he's a drummer...
), he'll make the adjustment and will probably be thankful to you for helping him get it right. But the bottom line is, if you're really interested in playing in any kind of ensemble situation, you can't be ready to bail at the first bump in the road...
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Actually, no it's not. Kick is on the 1 and 3, just quarter notes.
That's what I hear too! Sounds to me like it's just the bass that's hitting those eighth notes. I was starting to wonder if I just have a terrible ear for kick parts....
Rhythm guitar is playing something that's also like a "bum, ba dum, ba dum, ba dum" thing, and the kick doesn't sound very loud (on my laptop anyway) underneath it, so it's easy to mishear that. But yep, kick is solidly 1 and 3.
Agreed that open communication is essential. Since musicianship is very personal, ppl are sometimes needlessly shy about bringing this stuff up openly, but it is absolutely vital to a good band ... if there are issues. When everyone is on the same page, things kinda list flow without the need for sidebar discussions.How is it possible for a drummer "who has a good reputation around here" to screw up those songs? I mean, we're not talking about "The Black Page" here. I'm guessing that he just didn't know them or didn't spend any time at all on them, which is definitely annoying. HOWEVER, if he actually is a decent drummer, I'm guessing that this problem can be corrected in the next couple of rehearsals. Personally, I would learn and play the bass lines as recorded, and if the full-band version sounds bad, I'd just point it out to everyone. Pull out your phone and play the song for them (or, more specifically, for him). And you don't have to be a dick about it, at all. If the guy is a normal, adaptable human being (and yes, I know--he's a drummer...
Yep. So you've made that decision and moved accordingly (i presume). That's what these guys need to do, the band has to decide what it wants to be when it grows up.
We do this too but with a phone into the pa mixer. Helps a lot when we just aren't finding the groove to a particular song.
Man, if playing them exactly like what’s on the record is what you want to do, you are going to have a real hard time finding people to play with, and then if you do consistently booking shows. Cover bands are about fun, and having a good time. Loosen up and find the groove that fits to the drummer. Most of the songs you listed are pretty basic blues type riffs anyway, you should be able to slide in to the pocket and find a way that this particular group plays the song.
And I’ve got some news for you. The BASS is what gets people dancing. Drums might get the toe tapping, but the bass is what makes people’s hips wiggle. If they aren’t dancing and you want them to, you aren’t doing your job right. Loosen up and have a little fun, play some music because it’s fun to do. Get in to that mindset and be that way at the show and I guarantee the crowd will too.
And I’ve got some news for you. The BASS is what gets people dancing. Drums might get the toe tapping, but the bass is what makes people’s hips wiggle. If they aren’t dancing and you want them to, you aren’t doing your job right. Loosen up and have a little fun, play some music because it’s fun to do. Get in to that mindset and be that way at the show and I guarantee the crowd will too.
