Frustration with drummer.

[mrcbass]

Same here. When I ask my friends who are not musicians and casual music fans about this, they always respond that they want to hear something really close to the original.

I don't find this to be true. As long as the audience can recognize, sing along and dance to it, most won't know the difference between a song that has been slightly modified to fit the band. Extreme remakes may be well less accepted (changing a genre or major tempo change) unless you're making something fit your genre that wasn't originally done that way. Aside form high end shows, most people have no clue about the details of most songs they know. Unless they listen to your version back to back with the original, it will all sound the same to most people in the crowd, or at least close enough for them to enjoy it.

 

[ArtechnikA]

...But my point was missed by everyone commenting on this song. My point was, nobody plays it the same, and they don't have to.

No, I got that point.
My point was, for most of this stuff, there is no 'correct' even if that were a goal. Maybe just one popular version, frozen in time.
Bands like The Allman Brothers or SRV/Double Trouble never played their stuff the same way twice. Many jazz CD's contain alternate takes of the same song from the same session on the same day. The idea that there is "the" version is far removed from musical reality.

 

[The boa]

I think the thing we musicians often forget is that we notice the subtle differences much more than the average person watching from the bar or dance floor. As long as the basic progression, general feel, and lyrics are the same I feel like most people don’t notice or care that the kick pattern is a little different, or the bass is playing the downbeat but the kick isn’t. Most audiences that go to a bar for a coverband want to have a couple beers, hear a song or two they know, and have a good time.

I think if the OP goal is to play shows, but can’t get around this drummer’s playing, then OP should walk and find other folks to play with that share his vision. It’s a disservice to the audience to not go on stage with the mindset of making it a fun show, and having fun doing it IMO. I’ve definitely gone on stage with a bad attitude for whatever reason and not performed well, and cheated the audience out of the best show that the band can do.

I also think OP should give it at least a few more practices, find a way to articulate his interpretation of the song in a positive way, and try to make it work. It’s tough to find people to play with whose personality makes it a positive experience. If you have that you should be able to work the rest out.

 

[gazzatriumph]

The drummer in my covers band sometimes plays things different to the original, it does throw me at first but as long it sounds ok I will adapt to what he is playing.

 

[Corevalay]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I wanted to just contribute my experience.

I've been playing in coverbands for over 10 years now, and I don't think I've ever heard any drummer play the same song, the same. Each player has their own takes and nuances with the music. Many times this includes different or slightly different kick drum patterns. While it's not what I might be used to, or exactly how it SHOULD be, I feel it's my job to try and correct it and match it. As long as it's within the realm of the song, I'm cool with it. There's been many times I'm walking into a club to play for the night and just meeting the band for the first time. We haven't rehearsed together, we're just going off the fact that we all know the songs. If I can't adapt and go with the flow, the night will be shot.

To get aggravated by it, especially the first time playing together, seems really silly to me. If you want, mention it, but I wouldn't get too hung up by something like this.

 

[rashrader]

Talk to them.

 

[singlemalt]

If you guys called a busy drummer with a solid reputation in the area, to come check out your cover/dance band idea, you were lucky he even bothered to come by.

And he came by to check it out. Not audition. How was the vibe from his point of view?

If everybody is in their fifties, how many times has this guy showed up to a complete bust? Why would he put any time into prep?

An experienced guy would have an alarm set on his phone to set up a quick exit. “Hey, guys, sorry but I gotta run. Emergency.. see ya”

Was the hang good enough for him to stick around a play?

You could always get a Beat Buddy and load in your songs just the way you want. The Beat Buddy even has a sobriety function, for that last set of the night mayhem.

 

[frankie5string]

I think I get it. Here's the closest example I think he's referring to:

I used to play in a band that played Stones and Petty tunes. Those tunes have very commercial rock kick drum patterns. Nothing fancy, and certainly nothing jazzy. The drummer we had for a few shows was a big fan of Terry Cox from The Pentangle. If you want to hear what he does to a pop tune, listen to the drumming on Elton John's breakout album - listen to something like "Take Me To the Pilot" - note how frenetic the playing is. That is Barry Morgan "pretending" to play like Terry Cox:



Terry was famous for this kind of all-over-the-map playing in Pentangle where he shifts the bass drum back and forth through the groove. If you're playing known covers and your drummer is doing this, it will drive you nearly bonkers. He wasn't really a rock drummer.

Of course, when that drummer and I played some early EJ tunes, he was awesome, because he could cop that specific feel.

Am I close?

 

[lfmn16]

I don't find this to be true. As long as the audience can recognize, sing along and dance to it, most won't know the difference between a song that has been slightly modified to fit the band. Extreme remakes may be well less accepted (changing a genre or major tempo change) unless you're making something fit your genre that wasn't originally done that way. Aside form high end shows, most people have no clue about the details of most songs they know. Unless they listen to your version back to back with the original, it will all sound the same to most people in the crowd, or at least close enough for them to enjoy it.

+1

If you get it 70 or 75% accurate, the average audience will think you nailed it. I can't tell you how many times even other musicians have told me I nailed a part when I know it wasn't actually note for note.

One of my current bands is a guitar/bass/drums trio with limited background vocals. We play some Motown and it goes over great even though we leave out the keyboards, second guitar, horns, background vocals, percussion, etc.

 

[MtManiac]

For me - playing covers is a best effort kind of deal, emphasis on "best". I work with the band to cover a song based on how we each play it, and if there are some parts that I feel matter most, I bring them forward, like a guitar motif, a drum fill, a harmony part, or a bass lick. Otherwise, I play with the drummer so we are tight, and we each bring some of our own stuff to the song. I've *never* played a cover that was 100% true to the original recording, and most of the time the original artist also does not do this when they play live. But you and the drummer need to be completely locked in and tight regardless. I suggest spending some time with just the drummer, maybe the guitar player, to work out some of the songs, spending the extra effort to get them really tight. It will not be time wasted.

 

[LBS-bass]

No, I got that point.
My point was, for most of this stuff, there is no 'correct' even if that were a goal. Maybe just one popular version, frozen in time.
Bands like The Allman Brothers or SRV/Double Trouble never played their stuff the same way twice. Many jazz CD's contain alternate takes of the same song from the same session on the same day. The idea that there is "the" version is far removed from musical reality.

True, and that was also the point I was making, but in a different way. I probably should have said "like the record" instead of "correctly." Hardly anyone plays that song the way Pickett's version was recorded- which is the only version most people will have heard- but everyone gets up and dances to it, anyway. My point was similar to what mrcbass is saying, that if you play a recognizable version with a tight arrangement and a danceable beat (if it's a dance song) most people are happy, as long as the musicianship is good. If the band isn't good, that's a different problem altogether.

 

[FenderB]

For real? I am world's worst drummer never to play in a band but I am pretty sure I could hold that down.

As a drummer I can hold that beat down, pretty easy, but I do have one bone of contention with your claim that you are the worlds worst drummer to never play in a band. If you ever heard me play you would readily concede that crown to me. Ha,ha.

 

[svtb15]

He should have his act together at the FIRST rehearsal.. Practice is for HOME . Rehearsal is when he is with the band.

It's first practice right? First of all give the guy a chance to get his crap together. Secondly give the rest of the guys a chance to notice for themselves that he sucks, if he never gets better. After a while if he still sucks and no one has noticed then say something. Or find another band because the other cats must suck too if they like playin with a hack drummer.

 

[StayLow]

+1

If you get it 70 or 75% accurate, the average audience will think you nailed it. I can't tell you how many times even other musicians have told me I nailed a part when I know it wasn't actually note for note.

One of my current bands is a guitar/bass/drums trio with limited background vocals. We play some Motown and it goes over great even though we leave out the keyboards, second guitar, horns, background vocals, percussion, etc.

You're so often a well-stated Voice Of Reason & Experience in this forum. Kudos, and totally agreed.

In fact, you could play these songs to a metronome and they should sound good & groovy whether you're playing solo bass or stumming an acoustic guitar and singing along. You can do this even with something like "Master Blaster" despite the iconic unision runs. Same if you just dial in any random generic beat on a drum machine in the correct style.

So, again, IF the drummer in question plays in time AND the right sort of feel then that drummer is equivalent to a Powerball win for many bands and especially cover bands.

 

[pwhalen]

Well, typically cover bands that play decent gigs play for people who want to hear what they know. So the tunes better be accurate.

If you want to showcase creativity/artistry that's fine, but that is something different from a cover band and arguably an entirely different business.

It think that depends. A couple of the very big cover bands in this area (constant big money gigs) are decidedly sloppy and just manage close enough on a lot of songs, but non-musicians love them for the material they choose and do (apparently) well enough to get the chicks up and dancing. Most people would have zero idea if a drum part (or bass most of the time) is the same as the recording.

 

[The boa]

He should have his act together at the FIRST rehearsal.. Practice is for HOME . Rehearsal is when he is with the band.

Yeah but the first rehersal is never going to be smooth, no matter how much anyone reviews the songs at home. Band practice is for practicing how you play the songs together, not how you play the songs by yourself to a metronome. That’s the whole point of practice, to make sure the band understands each other and each other’s styles.

 

[Rob Martinez]

The bass drum doesn't sync with my parts. I am not saying I can feel any difference in 102 vs. 106 bpm, but if I'm playing a certain rhythm and the bass drum isn't with me on the notes, I can't do the song justice. I can tolerate a change in the song as long as it is learned correctly, but to not have the feel in the first place is not acceptable.

Have you tried syncing with the drummer? I get what you are saying, he is not playing it like the record. But sometimes you have to change it up a bit and lock in together.

Having said that, it is also important to see what the other band members think. It's not just the bass that has to be in sync with the drummer, the others have to as well.

 

[TheReceder]

I'd stick it out. Sounds like there are enough quality parts to make a solid group.
Admittedly there are some pet peeves of mine that would keep me out of a good thing... Wives and Girlfriends that want to be managers (ala Spinal tap), Drummers that take enhanced pharmaceuticals that end out making a slow song feel like speed metal etc... Guitarists that make the mistake of actually saying that I'm only the bassist. (the good ones have the sense to keep this opinion to themselves)

Sounds like the kick drum is yours. Tough situation... I wish you luck.

 

[3Liter]

The right answer is always: fire the drummer

How are drummers ever going to learn if they are so quick to get fired?

 

[edro]

He didn't listen to the tunage I would think...

It's kinda hard to dick up a qtr on one and two eighths on three.... He musta been freewheeling it...