Frustration with drummer.

[BassGeekJack]

It always helps to communicate. Like say hey, check it out, I think the record goes like this, then play your part while singing the drum part. Maybe he didn't bother listening to the record. I've done this from time to time, most recently on into the mystic. Guitar player/singer/BL says "but we don't do it like Van Morrison." Drummer says let's try it, then launches into it with a too-fast straight ahead rock beat. I try playing the part, it's not working, so when we're done, I say hey check it out, I think the record goes like this... Next take was better. Nobody's fee-fees were hurt.

Yep, communication is key. You can't be too frustrated until you know he knows what you're thinking. It's everyone's job to get on the same wavelength.

 

[tradernick]

As someone who books bands for a bar I'm telling you you're wrong. The drummer may or may not be good but if you're insisting on carbon copy i suggest you don't play in bands or live. The original artists probably aren't sticking close to the recorded version when playing live. It's the taking a song, making it your own, listening to and reacting to your band mates, and still making it recognizable and enjoyable for the audience that makes the live performance. I could just play the radio and not pay you and lessen my ascap fees if i wanted an exact copy.

A bit surprising but obviously valid if you book bands. I wonder what the owners would say in the bars I play in...maybe I'll ask on the next club gig.

There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this. If you're the bassist and the band is doing Super Freak, what bass line are you going to play? There are other tunes that are equivalent for drummers. But the coolest jobbing band I play in does many covers their own way.

Generally speaking though, the most relevant part of the OP is

1) The OP conflated tempo with kik pattern, and

2) that this has been a problem in his past 4 bands.

That's evidence that there are other factors at play here.

 

[basso_profundo]

I usually try to lock down specific version of tunes - usually with YouTube links, in an attempt to get everyone learning the same version of the same song. With standards there are so many different recordings and takes that leaving it to chance usually means someone will listen to some random live version that's different somehow (or we want to do the random weird live cover but they listen to the original studio version).

If someone's really off on their part, then they need to know and someone has to tell them:

"Hold up a sec - something's not right on the rhythm side - the way I hear X's version of the tune is Y, but I think we're doing something different"

And then sometimes I've had to work with a brand new drummer with little to no rehearsal for a gig, so then it's really just trying lock in with what they're doing, even if it's not what I'm used to...

 

[StayLow]

I don't know how to answer that. The only thing I can tell you is that none of the 4 songs we went over had any definite feeling.

Have the drummer play the beat on his own. Just ask to hear it. If it has a good feel - if it grooves - and it's near enough the proper tempo and in the correct style, then the drummer is not the problem.

Or everyone show up early except the drummer. Put a metronome on the PA and everyone play the song. Just straight quarter note clicks. If it doesn't "feel" good - if it doesn't groove - then the drummer is not the problem.

Do the same thing with a metronome at home and play your bass line, then listen to a recording of you playing to the metronome. Doesn't matter if the click can be heard on the recording or not. If it doesn't feel good - if it doesn't groove - then the drummer may or may not be part of the problem but you definitely are.

Try the same with everyone in the band at home individually. No need to get together until everyone can groove their own parts, from memory or while reading their charts if that's OK with your band, to a metronome. And until then, it makes no difference at all how anyone defines "cover".

 

[fingerbun]

The Beatle thing that you pointed out is more about writing and CREATING unheard material. Arranging material..
I think the OP is talking about Cover material that we have all heard hundreds of times on the radio etc. Its very different..

Of course. You pick the creative process that is appropriate for the situation.

I’m not working at your level, but my experience is that some people want note for note perfection, some want the basic feel and signature lines intact (that’s the most common one) and others actually want to find something different in the song - usually because they have been playing it for years and evolved their own version. I see my job as figuring out which of those they want and delivering it. And of course, in all those situations you need to walk in prepared.

Sometimes what’s on the record is unattainable, too. For example the double tracked acoustic/electric line on “walk on the wild side”.

Bottom line, in OP’s position I would raise the question of how close to the record you want to be. If the same thing has happened in his last four bands, it’s at least a possibility that he’s the one with out of sync expectations.

 

[Gaolee]

If someone called a song in a different feel on stage at a gig could you adapt and play the song? Let's say Journey 'Don't Stop Believing' as half time reggae.

Assuming you had been playing it as recorded at previous gigs, could you hang with this and make it work?

Or would you complain that they were doing it wrong?

We do everything wrong. Piece of My Heart as a ska tune. Janis Joplin can do it how she does, we do it how we do. Exs and Ohs as rockabilly. It's better than what Elle King did and people really dance to what we do. You Know I'm No Good with a bowed bass and no synth or anything even remotely like what Amy Winehouse did originally. We recently changed the key to several songs because the singer said her voice was a little off that night. If that kind of variation isn't fun, I don't know what is. Trying to play anything like the recording is a good exercise, but isn't really the point unless you are a tribute band.

 

[svtb15]

Don't forget..I am NOT at a higher level at all. I DO the SAME thing as you.. I play Clubs, Bars weddings too..Some not so good. some really good ..But I get to do other gigs too.Bass Playing is my day job.. I do have a strict work ethic. That is NOT so easy. And maybe that is why i was able to move ahead to a different area??

Well, I can only post my opinions based on my real world experiences.
So Carry on..

Of course. You pick the creative process that is appropriate for the situation.

I’m not working at your level, but my experience is that some people want note for note perfection, some want the basic feel and signature lines intact (that’s the most common one) and others actually want to find something different in the song - usually because they have been playing it for years and evolved their own version. I see my job as figuring out which of those they want and delivering it. And of course, in all those situations you need to walk in prepared.

Sometimes what’s on the record is unattainable, too. For example the double tracked acoustic/electric line on “walk on the wild side”.

Bottom line, in OP’s position I would raise the question of how close to the record you want to be. If the same thing has happened in his last four bands, it’s at least a possibility that he’s the one with out of sync expectations.

 

[jdc866]

I don't know how to answer that. The only thing I can tell you is that none of the 4 songs we went over had any definite feeling. I could hear the other guys just kind of plowing along, looking for something to grab onto. Like I said, I never brought it up. I don't think I ever would on a 'first time - let's see what sticks' rehearsal. It all felt pretty loose. In fact, the rehearsal kind of fell apart. Everyone started talking and we went over some other tunes that only 50% of us knew well enough to make it sound good. Then, we called it quits because the snow was starting to pile up on the street, and everyone wanted to make it home alive. It felt like the snow saved us from going any further, to be honest. At that point I wanted to leave anyway.

I'll let you all know how it works out.

Sounds like you don't necessarily have a drummer problem. Seems to me the bigger issue is that you need a band leader to decide a few things. Maybe message everyone and let them know it seemed like a pretty loose rehearsal, and y'all either need to nail down some grooves in extra practice, or listen to the songs and try to get locked in to the recordings (specify which version of each) if you don't have time for extra rehearsals.

I think I saw someone mention communication. I think a little solid directive to the band would work wonders. That way everyone is on the same page and can arrive to the next rehearsal with the same expectations.

Good luck

 

[Gaolee]

Hark, bassists defending drummers. Light the beacons!!!!

Some of are also drummers. Blamed and fired. It's one stop shopping.

 

[chiphaleonbass]

This is always tough, I'd recommend adjusting to the people around you or working on the drummer to lock in the kick and bass, sometimes a direct conversation is the way to go. I've found drummers take it one of two ways, but usually it makes them more aware of their play. If they won't adjust and they're trying to play it the best they can, just make the adjustment.

 

[zoonose]

If your issue with bands is most often the drummer, maybe the drummer isn't the real problem.

 

[fingerbun]

Don't forget..I am NOT at a higher level at all. I DO the SAME thing as you.. I play Clubs, Bars wedding too.. Bass Playing is my day job.. But I get to do other stuff too. But I do have a strict work ethic. That is NOT so easy. And maybe that is why i was able to move ahead to a different area??

Well, I can only post my opinions based on my real world experiences.
So Carry on..

Oddly enough, posting based on real world experience is what I am doing too

It’s all stuff for OP to consider. But don’t confuse deciding Hunter S Thompson was right about the cruel and shallow money trench and changing career direction with lacking a work ethic.

 

[easyj]

Drummers, man.........

 

[bumperbass]

TL;DR: (I had a response to this, gonna post the rest as it's own thread.) If your issue with bands is most often the drummer, maybe the drummer isn't the real problem.

You're right. I am the problem. Thanks.

 

[JPaulGeddy]

Hang in there, OP, similar boat here. Tired of finding drummers that have no interest in learning the material, or at least being consistent. May be why I've been gravitating towards tribute bands lately. I grew up with two older brothers, both fantastic drummers that put the work in, so got spoiled, I guess. Have come across a handful in the 20ish years since.

 

[svtb15]

YOu know what they say about opinions..

Oddly enough, posting based on real world experience is what I am doing too

It’s all stuff for OP to consider. But don’t confuse deciding Hunter S Thompson was right about the cruel and shallow money trench and changing career direction with lacking a work ethic.

 

[Mike Sorr]

I learn all the parts as recorded, and then when the drummer decides to make up their own parts having nothing to do with the original recording, I lock on to what he's doing. The fact is, you're probably the only one who is going to notice or care. As long as you're complimenting what the bass drum is doing at the time it's actually being kicked, you're good. Don't be angry, don't complain...just lock.

 

[pocket_groover]

Actually, no it's not. Kick is on the 1 and 3, just quarter notes.

That's what I hear too. The bass isn't doing bum-buh-bum either. The bum-buh-bum is there but it's also mixed with other rhythms.

 

[InhumanResource]

It think that depends. A couple of the very big cover bands in this area (constant big money gigs) are decidedly sloppy and just manage close enough on a lot of songs, but non-musicians love them for the material they choose and do (apparently) well enough to get the chicks up and dancing. Most people would have zero idea if a drum part (or bass most of the time) is the same as the recording.

Yes, the sloppy but popular variant happens too. There are other factors involved in success of course!

 

[svtb15]

Hopefully his Kick is in support of the songs Rhythmic accents...A 1/16 note pickups to the down of "1" can be good or bad. Depending

I learn all the parts as recorded, and then when the drummer decides to make up their own parts having nothing to do with the original recording, I lock on to what he's doing. The fact is, you're probably the only one who is going to notice or care. As long as you're complimenting what the bass drum is doing at the time it's actually being kicked, you're good. Don't be angry, don't complain...just lock.