Frustration with drummer.

[Downunderwonder]

Mustang Sally

Pickett's version was recorded- which is the only version most people will have heard

Or the Commitments version from 1991?

20 years ago the jam band night frequently featured Sally. I was a beginner bassist and figured that was a good one to get a handle on so I got the Commitments CD and got it down like James Brown. Imagine my surprise when they kicked it off completely differently and I was all at see with my ( unknown to me the time ) bastardized Wilson Pickett version. That was a great lesson in going with the flow. Since that day I have played it every way under the sun and I expect very few audience members gave a rotund rat's posterior.

But that's Sally. She was a tramp way before she got the Mustang. Op is talking about other tunes with nothing like her history of free interpretation. He is talking about the drummer failing to make an attempt to lock into him attempting to play the standard patterns.

 

[bearfoot]

are the guitar parts 100% accurate? are the vocals exactly like the recording? I presume there is absolutely no anomalies in the keyboards as well. right?

Look, I get it. I've played bass clarinet in very high level wind ensembles, and the whole orchestra tuned to me. No pressure. I've sung close harmony in madrigals and soforth. No wiggle room at all in such situations.

But this is a cover band. It's supposed to be looser, and somewhat re-interpretive, in most cases.
Certainly, encourage the drummer to lock in with you better, but don't go into it with unrealistic expectations.

 

[glocke1]

OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.

If you can still play the song "more or less" correctly, Just roll with it...

Often times correcting someones playing causes more problems than it's worth.

There are groups i play with where some songs are played entirely incorrectly compared to the album, it gets frustrating as some feature a cool bass part but the times I tried getting them to play things correctly, it didn't go so well.

 

[The boa]

Don't forget..I am NOT at a higher level at all. I DO the SAME thing as you.. I play Clubs, Bars weddings too..Some not so good. some really good ..But I get to do other gigs too.Bass Playing is my day job.. I do have a strict work ethic. That is NOT so easy. And maybe that is why i was able to move ahead to a different area??

Well, I can only post my opinions based on my real world experiences.
So Carry on..

I think this right here is a great statement, and gives me a little insight in to the various opinions on the thread. My new question to the OP is, how professionally are you looking to be and how professional are the folks you are playing with want to be.

Svtb15 plays bass as his job. Which is awesome, and I’m sure really fun and rewarding. BUT it seems to be a different approach to a cover than mine, the guy who plays in a band, seeks to play his best, but is in it for next to no profit, just because I like it. While I am SURE svtb15 loves his job as professional bass player, he is looking at it from a perspective of “I am expected to play x-y-z because that’s what I am being paid to do.” Myself, I am thinking “I really feel like this is the way we (I) should play the song because it’s more pleasing/easier/fits better with the band style than the original.”

I suppose this may be an issue with the OP, he may be more in the SVT play for pay camp, and the other band mates may be more in the play for sport camp that I fall in.

That said, 4 drummers and the same problem with all leads me to think OP may want to look inward as well and reflect on their playing/opproach to music vs the available pool of musicians’ approach.

 

[easyj]

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.

Bumperbass, I am going to sympathize with you. I am not just a bass player, I am also a guitar player. I don't just say this from a bass player's perspective. I have experienced the same behavior from more than one drummer. I understand that some musicians think that you don't have to play a song exactly the way it is recorded. They are right, what's wrong with making it your own? I'll tell you one reason that you should NOT change a song from the original: Because you are too lazy to take the time to learn how to properly play it, like the others in the band did. It sounds better another way? OK, instead of everybody learning their instrument's part, as in the original, let's start making changes that will affect other people in the band, and have no idea of what target to hit during practice. Let's also do it without understanding how the song is actually put together in the first place.

I don't think that my band has to play songs note-for-note or beat-for-beat. If somebody has a better idea of how they want to play a song, throw it out there, but I ask that they KNOW the song and know how their part should be performed, so that we can talk intelligently about what needs to be changed and how we can make it sound better. Changing the beat so that it directly impacts the bassline? That is something that I would expect the drummer to tell me about ahead of time. Your drummer is being extremely inconsiderate to his bass player.

Maybe more experienced bass players would simply ask: why would you expect a drummer be as professional as a real musician? Some may suggest that you are complaining too much.....not me. I expect a drummer to step up just as much as everyone else in the band. Bumperbass, I am here to listen to a fellow bass player's struggles....on TalkBass. I feel your pain, my brother.

 

[BassplayinBob]

OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.

Sounds like they are going to dodge a bullet.

 

[pigpen1]

OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.

You tell him directly to his face that the part is wrong then play back the recording to show. I don't know why every is so sensitive these days. What is he going to do, dispute the concrete proof that his part is wrong and whine and cry about his hurt feelings?

You should be able to play the song faster or slower if needed btw.

 

[Jim622]

I don't want to hear it like the record. Play with your band. Would you want the drummer telling you what to play?

 

[trailer]

He should have his act together at the FIRST rehearsal.. Practice is for HOME . Rehearsal is when he is with the band.

Duh! But stuff happens. Good luck putting a band together with that attitude.

 

[Shishka Bob]

You are not the drummer. You are the bass player. There are no incorrect ways to play the bass drum part in a song. The fact that you yourself recognize that you have had the same experience in the last 3 bands should give you a clue as to what needs to change.

 

[chuck1073]

See if you and the drummer can get together for a one-on-one to work on grooves. Unless the player is unwilling to put in the little bit of time to sort stuff out, you should be able to get things working pretty quickly.
I'm working with a new/temp drummer myself now. Compared to the guy I'm used to, he can be a little busy and maybe take up a little more space than "sound right" to my ears. I'll adjust...so will he. Music is a creative pursuit. If we all just played everything, note for note like the record, it would be be boring for both players and listeners. The artists that write the music change things up a bit on stage
too.

 

[LowActionHero]

This.

Give it some time and then ask to collaborate and get tight if it is still not clicking. If he blows you off and doesn't want to collaborate in order to make the band sound tighter then approach the band about it.

If everyone agrees that all musicians should be recreating the recording then the band needs to tell the drummer to comply or leave. Don't let this drag out for too long. Get everyone on the same page of expectations. Yes, a band should be fun but there is serious work involved for all.

I am in a very similar situation where I approached the drummer about syncing up our bass and kick drum on a particular part of a song. He blew me off and said not to overthink it. He also didn't want to work on a timing issue of a particular song. That tells me right there that he and I have different levels of expectations/commitments. I have separately told two of the other band members who I trust that if he does this again I am out.

Same page! I think it's easiest to to stick to the recorded version, the elaborate from there. My band is always on a limited practice time, so that seems like the most efficient way to do it. Not that we do......

 

[GavinJC]

OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.

I can see your frustrations. I had a similar situation. But it was with our bassist not drummer. But I was originally a drummer (switched over to bass recently) and it's not that difficult. Drumming is a lot of natural rhythm. And your drummer obviously doesnt have that and doesn't care enough to learn. I'm 16 and I can confidently say that I'm a pretty good drummer.

 

[bassbully]

I don't want to play them "in a variety of ways". They are extremely danceable the way they are.

Sorry but good luck then. Drummers often play songs somewhat off the beat of the recordings. As long as they are
on the one, keep the tempo and don’t over color the song you should be able to adapt and hang. The song example you gave should be very easy to adapt to the drummers style.

 

[bassbully]

I have never been that hyper-focused on a kick drum pattern...or needed a kick pattern to be identical to the recording to groove...

That’s just me...

How many practices are you basing this on?

I’m the same way. It’s more improtent that the tempo is right and it’s not too busy. Other than that I can hang.

 

[Downunderwonder]

There are no incorrect ways to play the bass drum part in a song

methinks you are very blessed to have only played with drummers that play it all spot on. Otherwise that is ludicrous!

 

[Vanceman]

You are not the drummer. You are the bass player. There are no incorrect ways to play the bass drum part in a song. The fact that you yourself recognize that you have had the same experience in the last 3 bands should give you a clue as to what needs to change.

I have to disagree with "There are no incorrect ways to play the bass drum part in a song." I started playing later in life, and the first band I was in, the drummer played the "drums", not the "songs". Once or twice, I got lost playing Mustang Sally due to him flipping the beat in the middle of the song. I had to learn how to play songs ignoring what the drummer was playing.

 

[DanAleks]

Once or twice, I got lost playing Mustang Sally due to him flipping the beat in the middle of the song. I had to learn how to play songs ignoring what the drummer was playing.

I'm not familiar with the term 'flipping the beat'.
Could you please explain?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Downunderwonder]

I'm not familiar with the term 'flipping the beat'.
Could you please explain?

Thanks,
Dan

Probably skippjng a beat without noticing and carrying on for a bit playing chuck boom chuck boom before racing another fill and landing back on boom chuck boom chuck like nothing happened.

 

[LBS-bass]

I'm not familiar with the term 'flipping the beat'.
Could you please explain?

Thanks,
Dan

Kick on 1-3 and not on 2-4? Or something similar?