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Frustration with drummer.

#241
svtb15 said:
LOL.. Hahahah . That's pretty funny..
Personally, I think I have a positive and professional attitude and not a defeatist attitude. ANYTHING is Possible when approached with a Positive CAN DO attitude. But ya need people that also CAN DO.

My Day job happens to be bass playing. It's not a hobby for me. I play all sorts of gigs, from arena shows, master recording gigs, nashville, LA, NYC, to Bar gigs and weddings.
Sometimes I get to play contractor for recording sessions, TV productions, Theater gigs, arena shows etc etc.
I only hire the guys and girls that i know can do a great job. And they are full timers like me. ONCE i hire them I can leave them alone because I KNOW they have the ability.
But I'm lucky like that. And have been blessed to work some of the great ones in the circle from NY to LA and nashville .
A negative attitude will keep you down and not allow you to advance.
As you said "stuff happens" . Yes it does we are all human. But those explosions are usually controlled demolition type explosions and not total Kaos
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I missed the part about the total chaos, I thought the OP was complaining about the drummer not knowing the songs as well as he would like for him to at the first rehearsal. Listen I'm more like you than you think, as a matter of fact I'm known as a hard ass around here. Some say I expect too much from band mates but in reality I only expect them to pull their weight without being baby sat. I expect them to be on time and sober, know their parts, bring a positive attitude and put the band in front of the trivial things in life. Some guys can't handle that. But at the same time I also know that early in a project it might take a little while for some guys to get with the program. The scarcity of players at that position dictates how long it should be tolerated.
 
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#242
Well . Im not a hard ass are all. Im very easy going. But if hired to do a job. Do it 100%. Its work ethics .
I agree, there are a scarcity of players at times.


trailer said:
I missed the part about the total chaos, I thought the OP was complaining about the drummer not knowing the songs as well as he would like for him to at the first rehearsal. Listen I'm more like you than you think, as a matter of fact I'm known as a hard ass around here. Some say I expect too much from band mates but in reality I only expect them to pull their weight without being baby sat. I expect them to be on time and sober, know their parts, bring a positive attitude and put the band in front of the trivial things in life. Some guys can't handle that. But at the same time I also know that early in a project it might take a little while for some guys to get with the program. The scarcity of players at that position dictates how long it should be tolerated.
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#243
bumperbass said:
2. "Make the song your own". This is shorthand for "nobody is commited enough to woodshed the material'. I will bet you that most of you who have said that would gladly be in a band that takes the time to get the signature stuff right. I'm not talking note-for-note, either. Signature beats, hooks, turnarounds, vocals are all important (to me).

.........

The reason I am upset is that, for the first time since 2009, I felt this lineup had potential, and at age 67 I knew this was probably my last foray in live music with a band, so I wanted to do it right.
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If you want to do it a certain way, there’s nothing wrong with that. You are within your rights to compromise and negotiate, or leave if the band will not be what you want.

But you are wrong about the “make the song your own” thing. A musician who builds a following often does it by having their own signature style, and it makes a lot of commercial sense to adapt to that style. That doesn’t excuse a drummer who didn’t prepare. But it comes back to the culture of the band. I say that not to have an argument. Just to get you thinking about another perspective.
 
#245
Downunderwonder said:
Probably skippjng a beat without noticing and carrying on for a bit playing chuck boom chuck boom before racing another fill and landing back on boom chuck boom chuck like nothing happened.
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Contrabbasso76 said:
Basically it’s when everything that should be happening on beats 1 and 3 end up on beats 2 and 4 because someone miscounted. Ever hear anyone use the phrase “dropping a beat”? Same basic principle. When someone does a fill and they eff it up and land on the wrong beat and it doesn’t get fixed.

Just as a side note, it doesn’t happen as much in odd metered tunes. So just play more in 5/4. Lol
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Thanks for the explanation. I've also heard it called 'getting turned around'
 
#246
oldrocker said:
Are you saying that the ABB and SRV played completely different arrangements every time or that the leads are free to improvise over a known arrangement?
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Mostly B, of course. But there were wide variations in number of verses through the solos, and some solos go off in extreme directions. And sometimes, ABB especially, sections with substantially different rhythmic patterns. The essential point being - those are bands where the members listened to everything that was going on played accordingly.
 
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#249
IMHO it is fundamental that the drum pattern is consistent each time a song is played. The drums / band don’t have to follow the pattern of the recording, they do need to be consistent. There’s no way to lock in with a drummer who is constantly freelancing on their kick pattern, and it burns me up when a drummer say, yeah I like to ‘jazz up’ the kick pattern.

Before picking up bass I was a drummer for 20 plus years. There was a point when I figured out that a kick pattern that was consistent EVERY time the song was played, was the best way to build a grove. A kick pattern consisting of (1, and 3) is completely different in feel from (1, 3 and).

Here’s a real world example, that brought it home for me as a drummer...Our set list consisted of Driver 8 (3 and kick pattern) followed immediately by secret agent man (and 3 kick pattern), both are uptempo driving songs we played at the same BPM, so we tried to transition quickly between them. On this gig I counted in secrets agent man, but I stayed with the driver 8 kick pattern, the song sat there flat until I corrected the pattern, and than immediately started to grove. After that I would write a note on my set list to remember the change.
 
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#250
BassplayinBob said:
Every band is a compromise of creative vision. Being rigid is a great way to reduce your opportunities to play music.
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I agree with you but this is a cover band that is looking to do paying gigs. They arent figuring out their sound on the journey to pitching their art to a record label. The drummer had the songs and didnt prepare. Figured any similar beat would do.
 
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#251
DanAleks said:
Thanks for the explanation. I've also heard it called 'getting turned around'
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Yep! Same thing. It's a common f***up. When it happens can either hold your ground and let the guilty party figure out how to turn it BACK around or you and the rest of the band can conform to the turned around beat and then laugh about it on the break. Just don't cause a train wreck and nobody in the audience will even know.

And audience members who DO know, and then point it out to you? Well, they're simply douchenozzles. Just tell them, "That's nice. I can't believe how much better the world is now that YOU'VE put YOUR two cents into it."

A good drummer friend of mine coined a hilarious phrase: "Man, that guy was droppin' beats like a migrant farm worker." Took me a minute to get the pun. When I figured it out i completely lost it lolol
 
#252
bumperbass said:
OK, so I found someone who understands what I mean. Thanks a bunch.

There are a few things I've seen in this thread that I disagree with.
1. I don't buy the notion that "the crowd will never notice how close you are to doing a song correctly and won't know if you're doing a terrible job".
Those people in the crowd have heard some of the songs you are playing 100,000 times. Don't assume that the public is so ignorant that they can't tell a good band from a crappy one.

2. "Make the song your own". This is shorthand for "nobody is commited enough to woodshed the material'. I will bet you that most of you who have said that would gladly be in a band that takes the time to get the signature stuff right. I'm not talking note-for-note, either. Signature beats, hooks, turnarounds, vocals are all important (to me).

In closing, several have suggested that it's probably me that's the problem. Okay, I get that. I have to stop being so OCD about how the songs are put together and polished. I have always kept my mouth closed about the imperfections I've heard in past bands that I've been in. However, I've been in several bands that took the time to do it right, going back to 1966 when I was headed for 9th grade, so I know what good feels like.
The problem around here is that the 4 to 6 top drummers in the area have either moved away or are deceased. The pool is small. I've talked to other musicians that have had to play with the last 4 drummers I've played with. They have come to me (without me asking) and told me how substandard these drummers are. I then co-miserate with them. I understand them and let them know that I know how frustrating they must feel. The reason I am upset is that, for the first time since 2009, I felt this lineup had potential, and at age 67 I knew this was probably my last foray in live music with a band, so I wanted to do it right. When I got the call, I knew the people in the lineup were good players so I told myself to give it a go. I did play with a wonderful drummer a few years ago. The problem was, he was so flaky. He quit 2 times and came back to quit a 3rd time. The other guys were playing in multiple bands, so that band was the one to be dismantled, because they couldn't find a drummer that they liked. I was the last member to join so I did not question their desire to disband, and I didn't discuss finding a replacement. I packed up my rehearsal room gear and headed home, thinking I was done. I didn't know any good drummers anyhow. The other decent drummer in town has one of those wives that are so jealous that he can't even leave his house without her. It's a shame.

Thanks for the comments. Sorry if I caused a stir. Perhaps I should have blown off steam and declared 'Rant Over!'.
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I totally get where you are coming from, and honestly without being in the room with this drummer it is hard to say who is right or wrong. In alot of ways this just boils down to note for note vs doing your own arrangement, and goes back to what the band decided they wanted to do at the inception. I think where you are not playing note for note, or something close to it, it has to at least still sound good and your bandmates have to also like it. In your case, his interpretation or lack thereof may be indeed ruining it.

Your take on "make the song your own" is correct...but only sometimes. Sometimes people really have done the homework and still make the conscious choice to change something up.

Now if there is one thing i have learned about playing in bands is that you have to be flexible. You have to be able to meet someone in the middle, musically, and them to you. When nobody is willing to bend, it just won't work out. And there will always be times when no amount of bending is enough to make it work and you part ways. As a bass player, i feel it is part of my role to support the rest of the band, and often times that means i am the one to do most of the bending to achieve that goal. I'm willing to make everyone else sound good at my own expense(and i am proud of that fact as it's my way of serving the music first).
 
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#253
sean_on_bass said:
I totally get where you are coming from, and honestly without being in the room with this drummer it is hard to say who is right or wrong. In alot of ways this just boils down to note for note vs doing your own arrangement, and goes back to what the band decided they wanted to do at the inception. I think where you are not playing note for note, or something close to it, it has to at least still sound good and your bandmates have to also like it. In your case, his interpretation or lack thereof may be indeed ruining it.

Your take on "make the song your own" is correct...but only sometimes. Sometimes people really have done the homework and still make the conscious choice to change something up.

Now if there is one thing i have learned about playing in bands is that you have to be flexible. You have to be able to meet someone in the middle, musically, and them to you. When nobody is willing to bend, it just won't work out. And there will always be times when no amount of bending is enough to make it work and you part ways. As a bass player, i feel it is part of my role to support the rest of the band, and often times that means i am the one to do most of the bending to achieve that goal. I'm willing to make everyone else sound good at my own expense.
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Well put.
 
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