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Frustration with drummer.

#281
NZbassman wrote; "Truth is though 99% of the people who come to see bands play wouldn't know if the drummer and bass player were out of sync... all they care about is the band is playing the music they want to hear and dance to"
I disagree somewhat, the people who come for the booze, women, men or party atmosphere may not notice consciously [ they will say this band sucks but don't know why] Those who come for the Music will know the band sucks and why:) Also it is much easier to dance to a band with a tight rhythm section.
 
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#283
NZBassman said:
well I'm in the 1% that will probably notice if the rhythm section are not 'in-sync' or if guitarist makes a mistake - because I know when I hear something that's not quite right
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I am saying 90 to 100% notice something is wrong but some may not know why. There are no 1% in my opinion all notice when band is loose, many don't care, don't know why and many do know and why. The 1%er's is your Opinion/Take/theory. To me 99% won't notice/hear a bad Band/Rhythm Section statement is not an excuse for it. and I believe not to be true IF they are paying attention certainly. I hear you; but I go with many don't care but Consciously or subconsciously they notice just like you do.
 
#284
Regardless, syncing loosely with the kick makes a gig turn into a job.
IMO those people who can tell that something's off but don't know what it is, CAN tell when you're having fun. When everything is just clicking with the kick, you don't have to fake it, and
Nebadon2000 said:
I am saying 90 to 100% notice something is wrong but some may not know why. There are no 1% in my opinion all notice when band is loose, many don't care, don't know why and many do know and why. The 1%er's is your Opinion/Take/theory. To me 99% won't notice/hear a bad Band/Rhythm Section statement is not an excuse for it. and I believe not to be true IF they are paying attention certainly. I hear you; but I go with many don't care but Consciously or subconsciously they notice just like you do.
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I'm getting tired of faking it.
 
#285
bumperbass said:
Regardless, syncing loosely with the kick makes a gig turn into a job.
Click to expand...

This, right here. My last band was a pretty good setup, gigging regularly, nice PA, good folks. But the drummer had(has) a hyper, more metal-oriented kick style. I ended up at the point where I was having absolutely zero fun with the music, so I bailed. (and yes, it had been hashed out before).

That being said, they're happy with their new bass player, and I'm happy not playing with them, so all's well. But I can't even fathom being so lax regarding a drummer's kick, not in a cover band.
 
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#286
bumberbass, I am surprised of so little support from fellow Bass Players; so be it. But I know what you are saying. I have been lucky to have good to excellent drummers to play with in all my Bands over many years. Sometimes at open Mic or Blues Jam nights I had to deal with what your expressing. BUT one time I was working with a Band that asked me to play for them, the Drummer was similar to what you are dealing with. I locked on to the Guitar players when rehearsing because the Drummer was playing nothing like whats on the recording I learned to. It was not so much timing speed but kick and snare hits random and inconsistent and a few slow and speedup problems. If I played to his 'beat' so to speak the Band would sound like you clicked on to a song on you tube, then clicked on another song without pausing the first:). I just ignored him, they then fired me because the drummer said I wasn't trying to establish a relationship with him personally [not musically] They just called first I was trying to find a way out without damaging friendships at the time. Since I am not making a living with Music [did somewhat in 70's] I can put up with Strong ego's, unpleasant band mates, loud lead players, average singers who prance, keyboard players who occasionally forget I am there and use pedals as long as it is only occasionally BUT not a Drummer as you have portrayed, I will run drummer out with support of bandmates [after recording us and pointing out problem] if he came to Band I was in or get out if I came to his band.
Phil
 
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#287
I think this is also a matter of communication. Find your best diplomatic way to say 'hey can we try it like this? Try and see how he is communicating, what your read on his emotional bond is with what he's playing. Maybe make it about the 'production value' of the song and how something you feel important about would make it better.

Perspective, diplomacy and empathy need to go into drummer-speak sometimes. Or if you have one member that you feel more comfortable talking to, have a side chat about your perspective to get some feedback about if you should weigh in heavier about it.
 
#288
My drummer and I ALWAYS play cover songs different than the album, on purpose, just to make each other smile ... but we are always "together" ... so maybe you just don't mesh well with this drummer? To be honest, why would you learn the exact up/down beats on a kick drum for a cover song? Play what sounds good and that's fun. Nobody in the crowd will notice subtle changes in the kick drum pattern, trust me. Sounds like you're too rigid to be honest. Carry on ...
 
#289
There's a Journey song that we play occasionally ... our drummer plays it dead on album-ish ... but with a 3 piece band that drum part makes the whole thing sound shallow ... ? Anyway, I asked him to try a driving beat, and damn it made a WORLD of difference ... crowd likes it so much more! So, basically get together with the drummer and hash it out, join forces kick and bass!
 
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#290
After reading 15 pages of comments, my take away is the the single biggest issue is really quite simple. There is no agreed upon definition of what a “cover” is among the members of this band. What others here have described as their definitions are irrelevant to this situation, because it is the band members that need to agree on some specific definition. My suggestion would be that the first order of business is to ensure that there is a definiton of “cover” that all band members agree with and will apply to their preparation of material. Untill that happens, you will have no ability to effectively communicate, because you will be speaking different languages.
Once that is settled, you can apply some of the (very good) advise that has been presented here.
 
#292
madmikebass said:
After reading 15 pages of comments, my take away is the the single biggest issue is really quite simple. There is no agreed upon definition of what a “cover” is among the members of this band. What others here have described as their definitions are irrelevant to this situation, because it is the band members that need to agree on some specific definition. My suggestion would be that the first order of business is to ensure that there is a definiton of “cover” that all band members agree with and will apply to their preparation of material. Untill that happens, you will have no ability to effectively communicate, because you will be speaking different languages.
Once that is settled, you can apply some of the (very good) advise that has been presented here.
Click to expand...

Maybe I forgot to say it; sorry for that, but we all agreed on what versions. One guy made a CD for everybody, in fact.

Thanks for your contribution.
 
#294
OP here.

I'd think (but never thought).
We aren't getting together for a few weeks. Gigs booked in May.
I spoke with the keyboard player today and we agreed that our songlist may require adjustment from a rhythm standpoint. He agreed.
I think I made my point, and I think he strongly agreed. I also said the drum set the drummer is using at practice (guitar player's) sounds like crap and needs to be tuned.
That's all for now. Things aren't in full swing. We'll probably wait until a few weeks before May to get REAL serious. It always happens that way, right?

Thanks.
 
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#295
bumperbass said:
OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.
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A band is only as good as its drummer...!

I'd ask the drummer IF he can play the track as written? If not, speak with the others and consider other available options, if any. Then decide if you want to be in a band with a crappy drummer...
 
#296
I don’t play covers, but as the principle songwriter in the groups I’ve been in, I understand your frustration, I think. For me it’s always, ‘you can play whatever you want as long as you understand the groove.’ And you’d be surprised how many players don’t. Most musicians don’t give a rat’s about songs or grooves, they’re just there to show off.
 
#298
Mr. Palchepo said:
I don’t play covers, but as the principle songwriter in the groups I’ve been in, I understand your frustration, I think. For me it’s always, ‘you can play whatever you want as long as you understand the groove.’ And you’d be surprised how many players don’t. Most musicians don’t give a rat’s about songs or grooves, they’re just there to show off.
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When ever I hear a blank statement like “most musicians” and out side a musical context “most people”. It’s a good idea to throw “ I’ve chosen to surround myself with” and see how that changes the statement.
 
#300
John j said:
Found this article from drum magazine on the bass/drum relationship:
http://drummagazine.com/partners-in-time-john-entwistle-keith-moon/
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That's the funniest thing I've read in years, and was a very enjoyable read. Thanks for that!
He really had a way about describing how he dealt with Keith Moon as a drummer, from the perspective of a real bass player.
The same thing can be said about his descriptions of how he played.
But, a drummer like Keith Moon could never play in a cover band.

Thanks!
 

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