G&L Club Part 7

[woodyng2]

Haven't played a Kiloton yet, but I can testify that the L-1500 and Climax basses were beyond barky to my ears, annoyingly aggressive, actually.
Hard as I might've tried to find a useful sound from them, the combo of their active circuits and pickup position always put me off.

Doesn’t the L1500 have a active/passive switch?
I’ve been interested in one because I love the sound of the Kiloton due largely to the pickup placement, but prefer a no pickguard/control plate look. I’m wondering if the kiloton’s simpler circuit helps that sound.
When I had my kiloton, I usually kept the volume and tone controls full up, playing through a VT DI pedal into a Markbass stack,
and got a really smooth tone with just a bit of grind . The thing I loved was how that pickup tone made the bass sound more “hearable”
in the mix without being overly bassy. (Like my L-1000 tended to be in that same mix of 1 gtr, bass, drums.)

 

[Glazenn]

.../... Speaking of....about a decade ago I saw a very special used 2nd gen SB-2 listed on ebay. It had a totally matte black "stealth-esque" finish, including the back of the neck, a matching headstock with silver G&L decal, model-delete. Along with all black hardware (including tuners) and black pick guard. Priced ~ $700 IICR....very tempted! I thought I'd seen all the obscure G&L finishes by that time but this one was a surprise. Never seen anothe G&L like that since, and was totally unaware that could even be a consideration from G&L. Special order? One-off for a celeb? NAMM-only bass? Proto? Anyone else recall seeing that oddball? **

** I saved the ebay pics of it but lost them during a hard drive crash a couple years ago.

What about this one?
Pictures saved in Aug. 2015
No matching headstock (though something awkward has occured with the finish), but it's almost there...
And looking at the back of the headstock, the paint job is not by G&L, obviously...

 

[craigb]

Doesn’t the L1500 have a active/passive switch?

Yes, the L1500 and the Climax before it have active/passive switches and can be played in passive mode. When I've had a Climax/L1500 they never went in active mode. L2K in active? sure, plenty - Climax/L1500? nope, just too much for my ears.

 

[TomB]

Yes, the L1500 and the Climax before it have active/passive switches and can be played in passive mode. When I've had a Climax/L1500 they never went in active mode. L2K in active? sure, plenty - Climax/L1500? nope, just too much for my ears.

Yep, L1500 passive - clear as a bell. L1500 active - like an ice pick. I recall reading that a cap change can tame the active mode - others here may know the details. I loved the passive mode for crystal clarity on a gig. So did my band mates - highly recommended if that character is desired.

 

[Hawk620]

With a Kiloton being as aggressive and mid forward as it is I have to wonder what a version with an M Series pickup and a similar preamp might be like. It would still preserve that "sweet spot" pickup position and the mid forward nature and aggressiveness could still be there on demand but it's versatility would be increased significantly.

 

[jfh2424]

I'd be extremely curious to hear a Kiloton with an M pickup in single coil and parallel mode. G&L tells us that the Kilo only sounds good active, series (the way it is now). But I'm not so sure...

Any one have some real world experience with an M pickup in a Kilo in single coil, parallel? I've got a cool Kilo for sale now because I have two and only need one, but I might pull it if the consensus is that it sounds cool with an M pickup in that same place.

 

[MrB64]

I have discovered that there is no Hipshot tuner drop in replacement for my Tribby SB-2, and I have this brandy new set of HB-1s. Now it's either send them back or drop them into one of my two Fullertons (JB or L2K). Decisions, decisions.

 

[svtbass]

I'd be extremely curious to hear a Kiloton with an M pickup in single coil and parallel mode. G&L tells us that the Kilo only sounds good active, series (the way it is now). But I'm not so sure...

Any one have some real world experience with an M pickup in a Kilo in single coil, parallel? I've got a cool Kilo for sale now because I have two and only need one, but I might pull it if the consensus is that it sounds cool with an M pickup in that same place.

There's no single coil nor parallel mode in the M2000/2500. It was designed to be humbucker and active only. The choice of cut/boost and a mid control is what brings the M to life. I never use active mode in any of my other G&L's but the M does what Paul Gagon designed it to do and does it very well. I really expected I wouldn't like it. IMnotsoHO, the TBer who stuck an M in his L1000, only having treble/bass cut (let alone single coil or OMG mode or WORSE- into a Kilo)- Welcome to Deadwood, population 0.

 

[Hawk620]

There's no single coil nor parallel mode in the M2000/2500. It was designed to be humbucker and active only. The choice of cut/boost and a mid control is what brings the M to life. I never use active mode in any of my other G&L's but the M does what Paul Gagon designed it to do and does it very well. I really expected I wouldn't like it. IMnotsoHO, the TBer who stuck an M in his L1000, only having treble/bass cut (let alone single coil or OMG mode or WORSE- into a Kilo)- Welcome to Deadwood, population 0.

Yup. If used in a Kilo that bass would then also need the M Series preamp as well. My curiosity is based on the Modulus M92-5 "Sweet Spot" Bass I once owned which used an 18v preamp much like the M Series G&L but with less tonal versatility Despite that it was a great sounding bass. The only question is would there be enough demand to produce it since there apparently wasn't even with the M Series 2000 and 2500. Probably CS build only.

 

[svtbass]

Yup. If used in a Kilo that bass would then also need the M Series preamp as well. My curiosity is based on the Modulus M92-5 "Sweet Spot" Bass I once owned which used an 18v preamp much like the M Series G&L but with less tonal versatility Despite that it was a great sounding bass. The only question is would there be enough demand to produce it since there apparently wasn't even with the M Series 2000 and 2500. Probably CS build only.

Agreed. Swapping in an M humbucker with the specialized pre would be an interesting project. I always felt the L1500 & Kilo would benefit with cut/boost and a mid control but that's a different price point for a Kilo. While the Kilo has decent sales, the L1500 showed the cut-only tone in that pickup location was fairly useless other than to quiet the abrasive highs when in active mode although that easy cap swap does the trick. I had a passive/active US Lakland 5ver with the single humbucker in that Kilo/Modulus sweet spot.

The M-series hasn't been much of a seller which is quite unfortunate for G&L as well as players. My loaded 2012 M2000 is a beast with a far larger tone palette than any L-series... and I love my L-series basses. IMO many are missing the boat on the M's. Sadly for me, it's the only MFD I don't have a fretless mate for and a fretless M would kill.

Always questioned why G&L didn't provide a blend in dual pickup humbucker models. A couple TBers have done that in a 1st gen SB2 and an L2000.

M-series preamp deal:
https://reverb.com/item/82426825-genuine-bass-preamp-g-l-m-series-mbeq3-3-band-usa-version

 

[lowfreqgeek]

How is the M-series output compared to the L-series basses? I love about 95% of my L2500, but the massive output level can be a liability - especially in the studio unless you're using a well-tested signal chain.

I had a session today using my fretless L2500 in passive mode, with both pickups, in series, and the treble rolled back about 50%. The sound was fantastic as long as I wasn't running out of headroom. However, even with careful gain staging in my signal chain, we were still having some problems. Dropping down the volume knob certainly helps, but when you're tracking, inconsistent volume knob settings can also cause down-stream problems - and I prefered how the full-up volume sounded when everythng was clean.

It turned out well, but it could've been more ideal. I might almost be willing to drop in M-2500 pickups and a modified preamp if it meant a less fiddly signal chain that didn't require carefully curated gear to handle the high output.

 

[Iridescentone]

How is the M-series output compared to the L-series basses? I love about 95% of my L2500, but the massive output level can be a liability - especially in the studio unless you're using a well-tested signal chain.

I had a session today using my fretless L2500 in passive mode, with both pickups, in series, and the treble rolled back about 50%. The sound was fantastic as long as I wasn't running out of headroom. However, even with careful gain staging in my signal chain, we were still having some problems. Dropping down the volume knob certainly helps, but when you're tracking, inconsistent volume knob settings can also cause down-stream problems - and I prefered how the full-up volume sounded when everythng was clean.

It turned out well, but it could've been more ideal. I might almost be willing to drop in M-2500 pickups and a modified preamp if it meant a less fiddly signal chain that didn't require carefully curated gear to handle the high output.

Interesting. Sounds like a fun experiment! As an inexpensive alternative to elecs surgery, could you just add a clean gain stage after the L-2500 to control signal level to the desk (I know engineers disdain such things) ? Seems like changing pickups and onboard preamp might not end up sounding like either an L or an M?

If you do the surgery I'd be interested in reading your opinion on the results.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Interesting. Sounds like a fun experiment! As an inexpensive alternative to elecs surgery, could you just add a clean gain stage after the L-2500 to control signal level to the desk (I know engineers disdain such things) ? Seems like changing pickups and onboard preamp might not end up sounding like either an L or an M?

If you do the surgery I'd be interested in reading your opinion on the results.

I had a Sadowsky preamp in the path with the volume control acting as a buffered attenuator, and we put a passive DI in the chain into a Warm Audio pre. We had other unexpected issues, though. The UA Apollo in the studio died in the 10 minutes between me getting there and plugging in, so we ended up having to use a different input chain than usual. That very well might've been a contributing factor.

I've been working with this producer for 12+ years on probably hundreds of songs, and he knows what he's doing. I'm an engineer myself, so I understand the gear and gain staging at a fundamental level. It was just one of those days where everything fights against you.

As far as sounding like an M or L, I think the M-series pickups will be the primary factor in how it sounds more than preamp, unless the preamp is heavily voiced like a Music Man. If the M2500 pickups are tamer by comparison and the preamp is transparent, I have no doubt that the G&L sound will still come through.

On the other hand, I've had some ideas for an updated L2500 preamp for a long time. I like the active buffer, but it adds a definte treble boost (both switch positions boost treble, not just the "treble boost" position), and volume knob is before the buffer and loads the pickups, anyway, which is what I was trying to avoid. I just need time to build something.

 

[Hawk620]

How is the M-series output compared to the L-series basses? I love about 95% of my L2500, but the massive output level can be a liability - especially in the studio unless you're using a well-tested signal chain.

The M Series MFD are slightly underwound to compensate for the boost from the preamp. To my ears they sound more like a L Series pickup with it's volume rolled back to 75%-80% or so. Much like that more old school flavor you get when not driving the L Series hard. There's still plenty of output they're just more "well behaved" I guess you might say.

For me the biggest advantage comes from how much more I can do with an active 3 band EQ and the Blend Control. I find there's more subtlety to it then the either or or off switching of an L Series. The pickups are wired in series so there's no option for a parallel setting or splitting the coils but it's not anything I found wanting.

 

[svtbass]

As far as sounding like an M or L, I think the M-series pickups will be the primary factor in how it sounds more than preamp, unless the preamp is heavily voiced like a Music Man. If the M2500 pickups are tamer by comparison and the preamp is transparent, I have no doubt that the G&L sound will still come through.

It's less to do with voicing as it does the T/B cut-only in the L-series and the T/M/B cut/boost with blend in the M. Those pre's are night & day different and in the M it's the pre that makes it sing. Buy a used Trib or US M-series from GC online, play it for free (less $21 shipping) for 45 days & get back to us. You can thank me later.

 

[bullitproof]

It's less to do with voicing as it does the T/B cut-only in the L-series and the T/M/B cut/boost with blend in the M. Those pre's are night & day different and in the M it's the pre that makes it sing. Buy a used Trib or US M-series from GC online, play it for free (less $21 shipping) for 45 days & get back to us. You can thank me later.

Looking forward as I have my first M2k ordered. Being lefty I don't have the flexibility to choose from a tribby series or USA made. No records of one ever being offered as lefty so I suspect this is the very fist one ever built. I went to pick it up on Tuesday and it looked great but there was something wrong with the sound. Sounded WAY lower than it should so I wasn't able to take it home. The dealer will send it back for repair or have them send them a replacement preamp. Disappointed? Yes but happy this bass was done so fast compared to my last order.

 

[Hawk620]

Looking forward as I have my first M2k ordered. Being lefty I don't have the flexibility to choose from a tribby series or USA made. No records of one ever being offered as lefty so I suspect this is the very fist one ever built. I went to pick it up on Tuesday and it looked great but there was something wrong with the sound. Sounded WAY lower than it should so I wasn't able to take it home. The dealer will send it back for repair or have them send them a replacement preamp. Disappointed? Yes but happy this bass was done so fast compared to my last order.
View attachment 7141115

Gorgeous finish color. Hope they can get the preamp problems sorted out quickly for you.

 

[Nedmundo]

Yep, L1500 passive - clear as a bell. L1500 active - like an ice pick. I recall reading that a cap change can tame the active mode - others here may know the details. I loved the passive mode for crystal clarity on a gig. So did my band mates - highly recommended if that character is desired.

Yes, the L-1500 pre could be modified by replacing a resistor to reduce the massive treble boost in active mode. I did this with mine (sold long ago), and it made active mode more useful IMO.

How is the M-series output compared to the L-series basses? I love about 95% of my L2500, but the massive output level can be a liability - especially in the studio unless you're using a well-tested signal chain.

I had a session today using my fretless L2500 in passive mode, with both pickups, in series, and the treble rolled back about 50%. The sound was fantastic as long as I wasn't running out of headroom. However, even with careful gain staging in my signal chain, we were still having some problems. Dropping down the volume knob certainly helps, but when you're tracking, inconsistent volume knob settings can also cause down-stream problems - and I prefered how the full-up volume sounded when everythng was clean.

It turned out well, but it could've been more ideal. I might almost be willing to drop in M-2500 pickups and a modified preamp if it meant a less fiddly signal chain that didn't require carefully curated gear to handle the high output.

The M series pickups are underwound by 12% (IIRC) relative to the L series humbuckers, so the output is definitely lower. It's still plenty hot, but my M-2500 has always played nice with other points in the signal chain. I haven't done much recording with it, but I did one track for my brother's studio and it was easy to manage.

For awhile I thought I might prefer an L-2500 over my M, but I've come to prefer the M, largely for the blend control. It's incredibly useful.

 

[TomB]

Yes, the L-1500 pre could be modified by replacing a resistor to reduce the massive treble boost in active mode. I did this with mine (sold long ago), and it made active mode more useful IMO.



The M series pickups are underwound by 12% (IIRC) relative to the L series humbuckers, so the output is definitely lower. It's still plenty hot, but my M-2500 has always played nice with other points in the signal chain. I haven't done much recording with it, but I did one track for my brother's studio and it was easy to manage.

For awhile I thought I might prefer an L-2500 over my M, but I've come to prefer the M, largely for the blend control. It's incredibly useful.

I always wanted to replace the pickup selector switch on my L2500 with a blend control. I was talked out of it, but don’t recall why, other than its inconvenient location - in the way of the right hand perhaps. I think I’ve seen someone’s stacked vol/blend version of that mod here on TB at some point (probably in this thread).

 

[Iridescentone]

Yes, the L-1500 pre could be modified by replacing a resistor to reduce the massive treble boost in active mode. I did this with mine (sold long ago), and it made active mode more useful IMO.

I did the resistor mod to one of my 1500's. I noticed a slight reduction of nastiness, but still kinda ice-picky for my wants. YMMV

My first L-1500 (a used '98 model) had an unbelievably noisy pre, the bass was completely unusable. I contacted G&L, Memo said they had a "bad run" of op amp chips at that time. He sent me a new "revised" chip for free that solved the excessive noise prob, but not the bass's baked-in harsh nature.

Great, thanks Memo! But then (2003) I thought...."wait, what? You guys sent some number of L-basses out the factory door in that unusable condition?" That was my first clue that there mustn't have been much final QC checks going on out there in CA. Obviously if anyone had at least plugged in any of these basses with the "bad run of op chips" installed before shipping them out..... On the upside that beautiful Blueburst/ash L1500 only cost me $275 on the 'bay.