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Gain staging

Tnavis

Tnavis

Feb 25, 2003
622
741
Minneapolis, MN
#1
I've always wondered if my though process towards gain staging is correct, and I'm hoping somebody will correct me.

I'm running an Ernie Ball MusicMan Stingray through a Tech 21 Landmark 300. Playing with funk and lighter rock bands over the years, I've generally kept the volume knob on the bass at about half, and hit the gain and master on the amp a little higher.

I've started playing with a much louder rock band (dual guitars through half stacks). I'm looking for a much grittier sound, and so I'm setting the volume to 10 on the Ernie Ball. There's no "clip" light on the Landmark head, but it certainly doesn't sound like I'm hitting the head too hard.

So.... on active basses, should I be maxing my bass volume before it hits the amp, or keeping it lower? And how does this change if I'm going to be going through a direct box at live shows?

Thanks!
 
#3
I have always played with my bass volume all the way up about 99.99% of the time (for nearly 40 years!). I never even thought there was an option!

There is too much risk of accidentally bumping the volume knob to "full" and blowing out a couple thousand dollars of amp / PA equipment.
 
#4
+1 to playing with your volume on 10.

As both a sound man and bass player, I appreciate a consistent signal level. If a player adjusted the volume level of their bass while I was mixing, I'd have to compensate for that by adding or removing gain, which I usually have set in stone by the time sound check is over.
 
#5
while kingrazer has a point, that the soundman doesn't want a varying signal, my thought is this: with the bass-guitar volume pinned, set the preamp to just below clipping, then dial back your BG level to about 80% (so you have the ability to turn up mid-show or mid-song), and then dial in the mast-volume to the appropriate level/mix. the key here is preamp just below clipping, then master at the appropriate level to hear yourself (again leaving some room on BG volume). you should be able to hear when you clip the head. i'm looking at the tech21 website, and it sure looks like you have a clipping indicator for each drive volume.
 
#6
hgregs said:
while kingrazer has a point, that the soundman doesn't want a varying signal, my thought is this: with the bass-guitar volume pinned, set the preamp to just below clipping, then dial back your BG level to about 80% (so you have the ability to turn up mid-show or mid-song), and then dial in the mast-volume to the appropriate level/mix. the key here is preamp just below clipping, then master at the appropriate level to hear yourself (again leaving some room on BG volume). you should be able to hear when you clip the head. i'm looking at the tech21 website, and it sure looks like you have a clipping indicator for each drive volume.
Click to expand...

The indicators next to the drive levels are for channel selection, since it's a two channel head. Keeping the bass at 80% makes sense, though, for a little extra room if necessary.
 
#7
Hmm. I am just the opposite. I never have my volume knob even above half. I would rather be able to make minor adjustments without having to walk back to my amp. Any volume adjustments I make after sound check are minimal. The fact is I can't even remember the last time I touched the volume knob. lol It just makes sense to me.
 
#10
KingRazor said:
I didn't realize this was so common. Often times I wish I didn't even have a volume control. Never had a reason to turn it down below 10.
Click to expand...

When the volume pot on my first guitar got scratchy, I cut it and the tone pot out and wired my bridge pickup straight to the output jack. Best free upgrade I ever made.
 
#14
I've found that on some basses (not all), that running the volume below 80-90% can change the tonal characterstics (e.g. less treble, or whatever) sometimes significantly.

In general, I run the volume on the bass at about 90-95%, so that it leaves some room for minor tweaking if needed.

As already mentioned, tweaking anything after soundcheck makes the sound persons job harder.

Dan
 
#16
Premierbass said:
I've found that on some basses (not all), that running the volume below 80-90% can change the tonal characterstics (e.g. less treble, or whatever) sometimes significantly.

In general, I run the volume on the bass at about 90-95%, so that it leaves some room for minor tweaking if needed.

As already mentioned, tweaking anything after soundcheck makes the sound persons job harder.

Dan
Click to expand...

With passive basses, your tone will definitely change. It may or may not be extreme, but as you adjust your volume knob, you are changing the impedance the amp input sees. With the volume wide open, you're getting the max frequency response, usually noticeable in the high end. That's why the tradition is full up.

With active basses, this is not the same. You have an amplified signal going to your amp, and the tone stays pretty constant.

I set the volume on my Roscoe full, and adjust the gain setting so that slaps or hard low B's light up. Then I turn my bass down to about 80%, and turn up the master on the amp to get the volume I need. That way I can crank it when needed, or back off.

On amps with no input light, I listen for grit or distortion from the gain. If you're using pedals, make sure that you do the test with any that add gain, like a boost or distortion.
 
#17
On my passive basses I run them flat out in volume and tone. After that, fingers and EQ do all the work. I will mention that I use my SansAmp BDDI for all of my tone shaping now, and I'm no longer doing two-guitar shows so I pretty much set it and forget it.


Active basses are more complicated IMO because you have more tone shaping right there on the instrument. My Crafter 5-string I typically run flat-out because the pre-amp isn't as hot as some other active pre's, generally have the pups centered. On my SB14 I run the volume flat-out, on the Phantom Coil, with Treble and Mids centered and a small boost to the bass. My Schecter 6-string I run it wide open on volume, rear soapbar pickup, treble flat and bass with a bit of boost for extra body.

Before I had the BDDI I had to cut back on the Volume of the Schecter as it would send my amps into Self-Protect from the signal being that hot, but now I use the SansAmp as a buffer and haven't had that problem yet. My main concern is I want my basses to sound the same every time so I try to find a mixture of instrument pre-amp and SansAmp tone shaping that can be consistently found quickly. All of the pre's on my basses have center detents so I just leave them there and the bass I boost just a tad.

I will note however that I generally don't mess around with my tone much because I'm in two all-original bands so I'm not concerned about sounding like any given bass player. I'm sure that in a cover band it would be a different story and I would be using those controls more often but luckily I don't have that worry :)

Peace,
Greg
 
#18
JimmyM said:
I don't care ;) Nobody ever makes my job easy.
Click to expand...

And as a sound man I do not expect musicians to go out of their way to make my job easier.

It is frustrating when a player frequently adjusts their volume in a non-musical way (dynamics are one thing, but I've mixed for musicians that seemed to have no control over their volume). On the other hand, making up for this kind of thing is just part of the job.

So, do what you have to do, but if you're frequently adjusting your signal level, just make sure it's purposeful.
 
#19
KingRazor said:
And as a sound man I do not expect musicians to go out of their way to make my job easier.

It is frustrating when a player frequently adjusts their volume in a non-musical way (dynamics are one thing, but I've mixed for musicians that seemed to have no control over their volume). On the other hand, making up for this kind of thing is just part of the job.

So, do what you have to do, but if you're frequently adjusting your signal level, just make sure it's purposeful.
Click to expand...
Tru dat. I can't argue against that.
 

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