Double Bass Gallien-Krueger MB2-500

[robgrow]

I played a Polytone for several years. It definitely needed a pre-amp. I was shopping and didn't want to have to use a pre-amp if I could avoid it. Before I acquired my AI Clarus Series 3 (1M ohm input impedance) I inquired of GK regarding the necessity of using a pre-amp for either their heads or the MB-150s. The GK tech that replied said that "yes" a pre-amp is needed.

I was under the impression that if the amp's input impedance was 1M ohm a pre-amp is not necessary. Did the tech err or was he correct to suggest a pre is needed? Does a pre make the GK stuff sound that much better that the tech would advise me to use one??

Most DB pickups work just fine into a 1 meg input impedance. No preamp should be necessary. I use a Fishman Full Circle straight into a GK MB150S or a Walter Woods amp, both with 1 meg inputs, and they both sound great.

 

[Ric Vice]

Most DB pickups work just fine into a 1 meg input impedance. No preamp should be necessary. I use a Fishman Full Circle straight into a GK MB150S or a Walter Woods amp, both with 1 meg inputs, and they both sound great.

+1

Walter Woods matched his amp's input impedance to the Underwood Pickup years ago and set it at 1 meg ohm very early on. The Underwood, Full Circle, Realist and most of the newer pickups sound fine at that load. The only exception evidently, is the old Fishman BP-100. According to Rick Jones of AI, it really has to have a 10 Meg Ohm load. They apparently discovered this when they were designing series three amps, but decided to set the load at 1 meg because the BP 100 was the only pickup that needed that load.

Ric

 

[MR PC]

I was under the impression that if the amp's input impedance was 1M ohm a pre-amp is not necessary. Did the tech err or was he correct to suggest a pre is needed? Does a pre make the GK stuff sound that much better that the tech would advise me to use one??

I always leave it up to my ears on this issue.....it's really up to you in the end. Some high end pre amps have variable input impedence. (nice)

Some of the old Ampeg tube amps had inputs of 4-6 meg, but don't sound so great with some DB pickups.

And are all 1meg inputs created equal in terms of the resulting tone with rest of the electronics/speaker in the amp? I don't know.

This new GK amp looks like a great piece of gear. I'm looking forward to playing one sometime.

 

[B String]

+1

Walter Woods matched his amp's input impedance to the Underwood Pickup years ago and set it at 1 meg ohm very early on. The Underwood, Full Circle, Realist and most of the newer pickups sound fine at that load. The only exception evidently, is the old Fishman BP-100. According to Rick Jones of AI, it really has to have a 10 Meg Ohm load. They apparently discovered this when they were designing series three amps, but decided to set the load at 1 meg because the BP 100 was the only pickup that needed that load.

Ric

I don't mean to start anything with you Ric, but all the input
I've gotten from Rick Turner, Steve Rabe, and (later) Don
Underwood, is that a 10 meg ohm buffer is "usually" better
for piezo pickups. Some may not need it as much as others,
but its rare that any Piezo's I've used sound better with a
1 meg ohm buffer as opposed to a 6 or 8, or 10 meg ohm like
a Sansamp Acoustic Di or a simple Fishman pre. There are
always exceptions but this seems to be standard opinion from
the experts I've talked to.
Having said that, I do admit my Full Circle works great going
straight into my MB 121P combo. It really sounds killer going
into my Focus I head, (10 meg ohm) into my Berg HT112.

 

[Ric Vice]

I don't mean to start anything with you Ric, but all the input
I've gotten from Rick Turner, Steve Rabe, and (later) Don
Underwood, is that a 10 meg ohm buffer is "usually" better
for piezo pickups. Some may not need it as much as others,
but its rare that any Piezo's I've used sound better with a
1 meg ohm buffer as opposed to a 6 or 8, or 10 meg ohm like
a Sansamp Acoustic Di or a simple Fishman pre. There are
always exceptions but this seems to be standard opinion from
the experts I've talked to.
Having said that, I do admit my Full Circle works great going
straight into my MB 121P combo. It really sounds killer going
into my Focus I head, (10 meg ohm) into my Berg HT112.

BString
It's all good here. Several years ago I talked with Don Underwood on the phone. As I rember the conversation we did not discuss the 10 meg ohm load outside it's necessity for the BP-100. Don did say that Walter "matched" his input impedance with the Underwood. So if you have better information then let's go with that.

Ric

 

[B String]

BString
It's all good here. Several years ago I talked with Don Underwood on the phone. As I rember the conversation we did not discuss the 10 meg ohm load outside it's necessity for the BP-100. Don did say that Walter "matched" his input impedance with the Underwood. So if you have better information then let's go with that.

Ric

Was Don Underwood the nicest guy or what? A few of us got
some of the first pickups he ever made. When one of mine
died about 4 years ago, he insisted I send it back so he
could give me a new one. After 25+ years of great usage, I
tried to tell him to just let me buy another one. He wouldn't
hear of it. Very nice man.
I used a 10 meg ohm buffer with my Underwood and Woods
for many years. It always sounded better with the buffer than
without it. I know so many guys who stand on either side of
this issue. Its been discussed forever.

 

[Gearhead43]

I have tried my Underwood thru both 1 and 10mohm inputs, and the 10 sounds better to me also.

My pro platinum preamp sounds like it was made for an Underwood. I love the punchy tone I get with this combo. I only using one side of the Underwood in the E side bridge wing.

Someone (Fdeck!!) needs to make a simple affordable preamp with variable (via a sweepable knob) input impedance, so we can fine-tune the response of our peizo pickups. I believe from what I've read that it mostly effects low-end response (?). I am surprised there isn't one on the market yet. Maybe it's more complicated to make than it seems.

 

[tombowlus]

I have tried my Underwood thru both 1 and 10mohm inputs, and the 10 sounds better to me also.

My pro platinum preamp sounds like it was made for an Underwood. I love the punchy tone I get with this combo. I only using one side of the Underwood in the E side bridge wing.

Someone (Fdeck!!) needs to make a simple affordable preamp with variable (via a sweepable knob) input impedance, so we can fine-tune the response of our peizo pickups. I believe from what I've read that it mostly effects low-end response (?). I am surprised there isn't one on the market yet. Maybe it's more complicated to make than it seems.

Well, the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] is relatively small, and not exceedingly expensive. It does have a variable impedance control on the input, and it is a great sounding preamp for upright, IME/IMHO.

Tom.

 

[Ric Vice]

Was Don Underwood the nicest guy or what?

B String,
He sure was, we spent over an hour on the phone, when I was asking about the double wafer pickup he built for Gleen Moore. We talked about Cantiliver Bass Bridges, Jazz Clubs, and BP-100's. Did you know that he worked in the electronics division of Baldwin Piano on the pickup system for their Electronic Harpsichord? Don in an incredible guy.

Ric

 

[B String]

B String,
He sure was, we spent over an hour on the phone, when I was asking about the double wafer pickup he built for Gleen Moore. We talked about Cantiliver Bass Bridges, Jazz Clubs, and BP-100's. Did you know that he worked in the electronics division of Baldwin Piano on the pickup system for their Electronic Harpsichord? Don in an incredible guy.

Ric

I had no idea. I just knew about his organ interests.
It seems like many of these inovator types are very open
accessible people with tons of knowledge they are very willing
to freely give. Rick Turner, Walter Woods, Bob Gallien, etc.
All huge influences on musical gear and as easy to talk to as
you could want. Lucky us.

 

[thejumpcat]

Anything more on this thread or another as far as the GK MB2-500 for upright use?

 

[Brian Clark]

Anything more on this thread or another as far as the GK MB2-500 for upright use?

I tested out my upright with the MB2-500 and our NEO112 cabinet last week. It worked quite nicely. It is the set-up that I am sending out for Chris Wood for his west coast run with The Wood Brothers. Also, Dave Holland has been using it for the last few months and really likes it.

 

[robgrow]

Anything more on this thread or another as far as the GK MB2-500 for upright use?

Although I like GK amps in general and would like to try an MB2-500, from looking at the posts over on TBBG, I'm inclined to wait until things settle down a bit and there aren't any new revisions being released (I think GK is up to version A04 currently) before spending any money. I am a little surprised, however, that the MB2-500 hasn't caught on more here with DB players.

 

[Ric Vice]

Although I like GK amps in general and would like to try an MB2-500, from looking at the posts over on TBBG, I'm inclined to wait until things settle down a bit and there aren't any new revisions being released (I think GK is up to version A04 currently) before spending any money. I am a little surprised, however, that the MB2-500 hasn't caught on more here with DB players.

Rob,
I think you're right about waiting for a while on the MB2 500. It usually takes a few minor tweaks before the production model of a new amp is ready to go. Heck, my first Walter Woods MI-100-8 that I bought @1980 had a defective switching power supply. Walter replaced it and turned it around to me in less than three days. Now that's service.
I'm also surprised that DB players haven't adopted it a little quicker. Maybe it's because it's a single channel amp. You would have to use a DTar Solstice or Raven Lab's Blender to use a mic. Now that AI, EA and even Markbass have that option it could be a factor.

Ric

 

[bolo]

I am a little surprised, however, that the MB2-500 hasn't caught on more here with DB players.

I'm also surprised that DB players haven't adopted it a little quicker. Maybe it's because it's a single channel amp. You would have to use a DTar Solstice or Raven Lab's Blender to use a mic. Now that AI, EA and even Markbass have that option it could be a factor.

I'll bet it sounds nice. Yeah for me as a mic user that separate channel for a mic is a big deal. But I know that makes me a minority within a larger minority. They had to be designing this first as a head for EB.

But I think the bigger issue is that I'm not sure what the competitive differentiators are. Maybe that's just ignorance on my part.

I'm guessing that MarkBass and to an extent maybe EA have grabbed most of the (current) remaining share of the ultralight DB head market over say the last 2-3 years. I think that's in part because they entered at a price point below AI. But when that market is saturated, either more people have to start playing DB, or people's old amps have to start breaking down, or the new ones have to offer something really unique and compelling, either in terms of features or sound or price or some combo thereof.

 

[Ric Vice]

I'll bet it sounds nice. Yeah for me as a mic user that separate channel for a mic is a big deal. But I know that makes me a minority within a larger minority. They had to be designing this first as a head for EB.

Gallien Krueger has always kind of given DB players a little nod cause the input impedances of their amps are set at 1 megohm. Once upon a time those little 200 MB's were showing up at jazz gigs everywhere, since most players couldn't afford a Walter Woods back in the 1980's when they were only about $650.00. You could get a 200 MB series I and II for less than that and both DB and BG players were buying them right and left for casuals. That established them in the Double Bass market and there still the go to amp for a large group of players here on Talkbass.

But I think the bigger issue is that I'm not sure what the competitive differentiators are. Maybe that's just ignorance on my part.

I think that if GK would go all out and build a combo like the MBS and MBE with a 12" neo that matched the MB2 head or a cabinet like the MBX the matched it they would sell a lot of them or you could just just duct tape two of them together and have a two channel head for around a $1000.00. Probably wouldn't work though cause those little heads get pretty warm.

I'm guessing that MarkBass and to an extent maybe EA have grabbed most of the (current) remaining share of the ultralight DB head market over say the last 2-3 years. I think that's in part because they entered at a price point below AI. But when that market is saturated, either more people have to start playing DB, or people's old amps have to start breaking down, or the new ones have to offer something really unique and compelling, either in terms of features or sound or price or some combo thereof.

Yeah, I think that AI has a pretty good hold on the doubling side of the bass amp market and when EA and Markbass started building little
Digital Switching Amplifiers Gallien Krueger had to counter with something that was more powerful than the MBS and MBE's. I think that Markbass has made a slight misstep because their amps have 500 k input impedances, but that doesn't seem to bother many players. Personally, I liked the MB2 500 when I compared it to the Little Mark II, but I'm sure that others would disagree.

Ric

 

[McGryff]

I tested out my upright with the MB2-500 and our NEO112 cabinet last week. It worked quite nicely. It is the set-up that I am sending out for Chris Wood for his west coast run with The Wood Brothers. Also, Dave Holland has been using it for the last few months and really likes it.

Might a combo version of this setup be in the future? Seeing as how big a seller the MB150 series (and its predecessors) have been, and how much DBers like 12's, it's food for thought, certainly.

And after playing through Ampegs for years it's interesting to see Chris Wood as a GK endorser. Cool!

 

[Johnny Atomic]

I'm thinking of pickuping up a mb2-500. I have an 800rb, Shuttle 3.0, and LM2. Where does the mb2-500 fit in terms of tone and volume compared to these. I'll be using it for DB w/ and underwood and rane ap13 pre.

Johnny