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gas prices

#61
burk48237 said:
the regulator class of the US won't let us drill in ANWR, or offshore in the gulf (Cuba and Mexico are drilling new wells there).
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There is a massive amount of offshore drilling in the gulf. It's practically limited by how many rigs can be deployed. There are small areas which are off-limits, but even if they were opened up tomorrow there wouldn't be enough rigs to do the drilling. As for ANWR, there hasn't even been any exploring there, nobody knows how much oil is or isn't there. There may be a lot. There may be very little. There is definitely a lot in the Gulf, and it's being exploited.

There's a major limitation of infrastructure in the oil business which gets very little press. People talk about refining capacity, but drilling capactity is pretty much maxxed out also, and much of the rig machinery is very old.
 
#62
In 1966 the pump price for a gallon of gas on the east side of St. Paul, Minnesota was 32.9 cents. 12.9 cents was state and federal tax. The gas was 20 cents a gollon as in the 1940 when gas was not taxed.
Point of the story, non really, other than 2 cents a gallon we paid to pay for the lease, left us with a pre expense profit of .5 cents to cover all other expenses.
Another part of te story goes back in time to when a tax break was given to companies spending money oversees. For every $1 spent overseas, the company recieved a $1 off of their US tax bill. Where would you start drilling?
 
#63
Heard on my morning news this morning that oil prices will likely go up another 25-50% before Labor Day. So that would be in the $150-$180 range. I wonder what effect that will have on the price of gas? Might be cheaper to run your vehicle on milk, at that point. Should be an interesting summer, as far as vacations go...

Even cruise lines are jacking their fares 25% or so, plus charging a fuel fee of $5-$10 per person, per day. I may not take vacation at all this year; if I do, I'll just stay home and sit in the back yard.

Even the $0.99 menus at fast food restaurants are going up to $1.29 or more. Rice, wheat, and corn are all approaching 2-300% increases. Beef prices are going up. Heck, ALL food prices are rising- many people in my town started gardens this year just to cope with rising prices. I sure am glad inflation is only 0.5%! I know that's true, the gubmint says there is no inflation. As long as we keep blindly trusting the gubmint, everything is gonna be just fine...:eyebrow:
 
#64
Philbiker said:
There is a massive amount of offshore drilling in the gulf. It's practically limited by how many rigs can be deployed. There are small areas which are off-limits, but even if they were opened up tomorrow there wouldn't be enough rigs to do the drilling. As for ANWR, there hasn't even been any exploring there, nobody knows how much oil is or isn't there. There may be a lot. There may be very little. There is definitely a lot in the Gulf, and it's being exploited.

There's a major limitation of infrastructure in the oil business which gets very little press. People talk about refining capacity, but drilling capactity is pretty much maxxed out also, and much of the rig machinery is very old.
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Most of the reserves in the Gulf are natural gas, NOT crude oil. Almost all the rigs are unmanned, with pumping stations to shuttle it back to shore. There are a few pockets of oil, and they are being exploited, but most of the near-shore (<250nm) deposits are gas. I haven't seen all the rigs, but used to work for CMS Energy, and they had gas pipelines running from 250 miles out in the Gulf all the way up into PA and even a spur that went to NH...
 
#66
mike_v_s said:
I hunted jobs for 9 months before I found one that paid what I needed it to and didn't require me to sell my soul. That job is 37 miles from my home. I'm not moving closer because the cost of living, crime rate, etc are higher than I like. I'm not going to bike to work. There is no mass transit system to take me there. Hell, even I live IN New Orleans, there's no mass transit system set up to get me anywhere close to the office. It's just not feasible. I'm glad you're working it out, just understand the limitations of your idea.
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Economic realities are going to bite everyone. Gas prices are not, ever, going down to the levels of even a few years ago. They are going to continue to go up.

There are a lot of benefits for you in where you live, but there is a cost also... and that cost is going to keep going up. Eventually you'll reach a point where the cost outweighs the benefits. What happens then?
 
#67
aborgman said:
Economic realities are going to bite everyone. Gas prices are not, ever, going down to the levels of even a few years ago. They are going to continue to go up.

There are a lot of benefits for you in where you live, but there is a cost also... and that cost is going to keep going up. Eventually you'll reach a point where the cost outweighs the benefits. What happens then?
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Painfully true about the zoning and development, but there are some people changing things. Read more here: www.cnu.org .
 
#68
TheBigO said:
And it's very easy to say that people should change their lives, but very difficult in practice. My stepfather is a salesman. Without getting a new job at his age (he's 54), how exactly can he mitigate the effects of rising gas prices?
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He probably can't - but that is irrelevant. He's either in the long run going to do something to mitigate the rising gas prices, or he will be destitute.

It probably sucked to be a buggy whip manufacturer at the advent of the automobile, but economic reality stops for no man.
 
#69
aborgman said:
Economic realities are going to bite everyone. Gas prices are not, ever, going down to the levels of even a few years ago. They are going to continue to go up.

There are a lot of benefits for you in where you live, but there is a cost also... and that cost is going to keep going up. Eventually you'll reach a point where the cost outweighs the benefits. What happens then?
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I'll buy my own island and start my own country. Talk about a "Master Reset Switch"!
 
#71
aborgman said:
He probably can't - but that is irrelevant. He's either in the long run going to do something to mitigate the rising gas prices, or he will be destitute.

It probably sucked to be a buggy whip manufacturer at the advent of the automobile, but economic reality stops for no man.
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The difference is the buggy whip maker lost his job to natural market forces. And it was actually the LOWER price of the automobile (cheaper then the horse drawn carriage) that changed the market. Right now, thanks to technology and regulators the alternatives are MORE expensive then fossil fuel. The Salesman ( I'm one too) may lose his job to so called good intentions of a bunch of overbearing regulators who have discouraged supply and then have the gail to complain about high prices. They are hateful arrogant elitists. Ironically a vast majority of them (the people creating the lack of supply) personally consume enough fuel for twenty of thirty households. Yeah, they drive Priuses on the way to their private Jet Ports.:eyebrow:
 
#72
Bassic83 said:
Most of the reserves in the Gulf are natural gas, NOT crude oil. Almost all the rigs are unmanned, with pumping stations to shuttle it back to shore. There are a few pockets of oil, and they are being exploited, but most of the near-shore (<250nm) deposits are gas. I haven't seen all the rigs, but used to work for CMS Energy, and they had gas pipelines running from 250 miles out in the Gulf all the way up into PA and even a spur that went to NH...
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Yes but natural gas, like nuclear power, is an alternative to crude oil especially for electrical power and home heating. When your using natural gas or electric to heat and power your home that increases the supply of crude oil. When the alternatives prices are being driven up by over regulation. You have to ask the question, why do those who write the regulations, hate the middle and lower classes so much?:hmm:
 
#73
burk48237 said:
Yes but natural gas, like nuclear power, is an alternative to crude oil especially for electrical power and home heating. When your using natural gas or electric to heat and power your home that increases the supply of crude oil. When the alternatives prices are being driven up by over regulation. You have to ask the question, why do those who write the regulations, hate the middle and lower classes so much?:hmm:
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Well, pitchforks and torches to them! :D

Sadly, it will probably come to that, too. It is desperately needed at ALL levels of gubmint and regulation, from gas taxes to hedge funds on energy, to the Dept. of Energy, to the Ford and GM corporate boardrooms; even on Wall Street! Those "poor folks" are just trying to get to work. And yes, supply and demand DOES play into the equation, but the lobbyists for all the different pieces of the transportation, energy, and infrastructure sectors also place a tremendous burden on the common peon. Someone's got to pay the bribe money, and that gets passed on to whom? ;):D
 
#74
burk48237 said:
The difference is the buggy whip maker lost his job to natural market forces. And it was actually the LOWER price of the automobile (cheaper then the horse drawn carriage) that changed the market. Right now, thanks to technology and regulators the alternatives are MORE expensive then fossil fuel.
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Actually it's beacuas of thermodynaics. Oil returns an incredible amount of energy for very little energy expended to process and refine it. We just take it for granted because there's been so damn much of it everywhere. As that changes energy will get more expensive.
 
#76
burk48237 said:
The difference is the buggy whip maker lost his job to natural market forces. And it was actually the LOWER price of the automobile (cheaper then the horse drawn carriage) that changed the market. Right now, thanks to technology and regulators the alternatives are MORE expensive then fossil fuel. The Salesman ( I'm one too) may lose his job to so called good intentions of a bunch of overbearing regulators who have discouraged supply and then have the gail to complain about high prices. They are hateful arrogant elitists. Ironically a vast majority of them (the people creating the lack of supply) personally consume enough fuel for twenty of thirty households. Yeah, they drive Priuses on the way to their private Jet Ports.:eyebrow:
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Gas prices aren't rising because of elitists, or environmentalists.

Gas prices are rising (and will continue to do so for the forseeable future) because of increased affluence and population in China and India.
 
#77
It's also a hell of a lot more expensive to produce than it has been. 50 years ago you drilled a hole in the ground in Texas or California and you were gold. Today the crude is much more resource intensive to extract. Deep water rigs in the hurricane prone Gulf of Mexico and the legendary North Atlantic are a hell of a lot more expensive than a hole in the ground in Texas or California. The Alaska Pipeline was one of the largest engineering feats of the century in dollars spent. It was designed and built for a 25 year lifespan. 35 years ago. Turning Venezuela's heavy oil into something usable is a big effort. Turning Canada's "Oil Sands" into something useful is a huge effort. Old supergiant fields like Ghawar are requiring ever more and more sophisticated and expensive drilling and water displacement techniques. Even if there were no environmental rules (god help us) there are only so many rigs and people to run them in the world. It's tough work.

This is a finite resource, you just can't keep growing supply forever.

Geniune scarcity is a very real factor. If OPEC could pump more they'd put it on the market. It's very much against their interest for oil to be as expensive as it is.
 
#78
BadB said:
Do really think an automobile company in the US will ever manufacture a car that utilizes free energy? Hell no ! The bigwigs at the oil companies just so happen to be the bigwigs at the auto companies and Congress. They will never give up that revenue stream. They sell you a car. Then they sell you fuel. Then they sell you insurance. Then they sell you car parts. They tax your income to pay for transportation infrastructure. They mark up the price if every item you purchase to cover transportation costs. So what do you say? Maybe 30-40% of every dollar you earn is spent on transportation? More? Then add the cost of other energy like electricity. Yeah, right.
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Apparently, you believe I was born yesterday :smug:
I am well aware of how things work...I was just being ...hopeful? Is that the word I want to use?
 
#80
aborgman said:
Gas prices aren't rising because of elitists, or environmentalists.

Gas prices are rising (and will continue to do so for the forseeable future) because of increased affluence and population in China and India.
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Not completely true, Environmentalist regulators have prevented the development of Nuclear Power in the US (France gets almost 80% of it's electricity form Nuclear Power), Have prevented drilling in ANWR, and new sites in the Gulf or offshore in CA. The EPA requires 27 different blends of regular gasoline due to environmental regulations straining refining capacity, while environmentalist have prevented the permits for any new refineries to be built in the last forty years. So while the demand has increased environmentalist not only have decreased the US contribution to our own fuel supply they have also delayed or prevented the use of the most viable of the alternatives. You could make the case that they WANT the price of energy to be high. And in many cases they have declared as much. Ironically many of the same people who caused the problems are now complaining about it.:hmm:
 

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