As we all should know by now, the ability to sell a pile of turds does not make one a craftsman. It just means they're a good turd salesman.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Gene Simmons [still] Thinks Rock Is Dead
- Thread starter Altitude
- Start date
There's a HUGE difference in being a commercial success and an artistic one. The legends are able to do both, so that pretty much disqualifies Simmons.
I swear, some of the people on here are even more old-fart-outa-touch than Simmons, if that's possible.
Were you singing "first I drink, then I smoke" at 8??
I didn't start drinking till I was 12
Oh, I'd already had several women and killed 10 men by the time I was 12, but I don't like to brag.
You mentioned the two records sent by The Kiss New Year's Eve show in Dubai. These both pertained to the fireworks. One record was for highest flame jet and the other for greatest amount of fireworks in the shortest period. It was a spectacular display to be sure, although I'm not sure it proves anything about rock and roll.
the third potential record set by the band is one they promised to update us on but I'm dubious. This third hoped for record would be greatest receipts garnered from a streaming show. But kiss her up against it because a K-pop band streamed a show that grossed 18 million earlier this year. The Kiss show reportedly cost 10 million all in. How are they going to show an eight million dollar profit on a streaming show that went out at odd times relative to Dubai (it aired t10:00 a.m. December 31st in the US), when the entire program including the pregame hour were all available on YouTube for free within 24 hours? just a wild ass guess from here obviously but I bet the band is lucky to break even on the show. However they still have a good half of their end of the road tour shows to perform. Who knows when that will eventually happen but this event could only have helped raise awareness for the band and will hopefully help them sell out the rest of the tour dates when they are eventually rescheduled.
D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
Artistic success is near impossible to quantify, what with it being entirely subjective. What one person thinks is artistically valid another might think is pure cheese. Cheese is nice every now and again
Yup! Nothing more rock and roll than setting records on the most and highest explosions during a single band's rock concert! LoL - and I didn't mean to suggest it was attendance or viewership that set records. Sorry for being vague.
Hey, I like kiss - but I know their talents and their limitations. Still, they are rock and roll. Simple songs, fantastic lead vocals (at least when they were younger).
I totally thought their goal for 3rd world record was just crazy wishful thinking. I didn't even know about the show until after it aired, so my viewing (erm... skipping through each song that I've heard too many times) likely doesn't count on youtube. who knows though.
But yea, it raises awareness. And in many parts of the world, maybe Dubai?? I dunno... there is much more interest in hard classic rock than there is in mainstream europe and north america, from what I've been told. Same goes for metal.
It's not that hard to quantify. We talk all of the time of the artistry of bassists or lyricists. Simmons writes songs that are basically from the perspective and with all of the sophistication of a 14 year old horny dude, and his bass playing's average, at best, certainly nothing people will remember like they remember a Carol Kaye or a Flea.Artistic success is near impossible to quantify, what with it being entirely subjective. What one person thinks is artistically valid another might think is pure cheese. Cheese is nice every now and again
Thanks. I checked out about 5 songs or so. Definitely had a rock feel on a few songs, with some clear homage to 70's and 80's soft rock with steel guitar and twang tossed on top to countrify it... and of course a few pop country hook-ey tricks thrown in for good measure. So, yeah, there appears to be some rock left hanging on in some current country music.
I still wouldn't go as far as to say that rock and roll is being kept alive through modern country, In fact I'd say that most modern pop/hiphop country is actually helping weed rock out of the mainstream.
Last edited:
Your response is subjective, that is, your opinion. It is a fact that members of Kiss make millions from the Kiss brand. Thanks for playing, though...
Modern music tends to be more Monkees and less Beatles. The difference really comes down to whether the final product is artist-centric or producer-centric. Unfortunately, uniformly high production values tend to homogenize the marketplace.
Just because something is successful doesn't mean that it is artistic - I am not going to argue whether or not Kiss is objectively artistic or not. Because you are right - that is subjective.
But for myself I subjectively don't find their brand to be that artistically stimulating in it's base format - though because of it's pop cultural relevance, there is certainly nothing stopping it from say, being artfully used in a movie soundtrack in a period piece (or even with a sense of irony in an action comedy or something).
This is due to industry consolidation - there are only a few major labels left, and they tend to own a significant amount of the lower level labels as well. Not to mention - they use a lot of the same songwriting groups, producers, recording facilities, etc. and with the music industry being as relevant as the book industry, the executives at the top are in no way going to risk their revenue the same way they could take gambles back during the hey-day when music was a top tier part of home entertainment.
Unfortunately - yes this means that the mainstream has been homogenized, but fortunately the progression of time has meant that for anyone willing to take the time to learn how to do it; we are living in an age where it is possible for the artist to control the production process for their art from beginning to end - and even if something doesn't capture the cultural zeitgeist (99% of all art does not), that should not be the prime motivator for creative expression.
So while I will likely never make any money on my art - I also don't have to go out and lick the taint of the industry to get a record made... so I think all in all, it is a net positive.
Last edited:
Make or made? Are there 8 year olds still buying Kiss lunch boxes?
In any case, Bill Frisell and Ry Cooder are as successful, if not more, than Kiss. They can live wherever they want, pay their bills, and create the new music they want. They’re not out there performing only hits from 40 years ago.
Well hey, THIS product has been very popular and made lots of money, and kids love it, so I guess that means it's really great food. Right?
Make. Lots of articles out there on how much this band still makes... KISS Announces Final Tour: How Much Is the Legendary Rock Band Worth?
Adults are. They are valued as collectors' items. Kiss Vintage Lunchbox | eBay
OK, I'll bite... please provide some evidence of this, as if it really matters...
So what?
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate, TalkBass may earn a commission from qualifying purchases.
The money from a resold lunchbox doesn’t go to Kiss any more than the money from a used bass I ditch goes to Fender. Who’s buying new Kiss lunchboxes? No one.
What is success? Frisell and Cooder can live wherever they want, can pay all their bills, and are still creating new music. They are roughly the same age, if not older, than the original members of Kiss. Even if you think “God of Thunder” or “Detroit Rock City” are the best music ever written, they’re 45 years old. Kiss, like the Eagles, is a tribute band, no more, no less.
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate, TalkBass may earn a commission from qualifying purchases.
