Gene Simmons [still] Thinks Rock Is Dead

[lancimouspitt]

I don’t know if off the top of my head I would give a definitive date of death for rock n roll but I say undead because it’s something dead which is still animated.
Rock isn’t haunted but I would argue haunting. ( mark fisher capital realism and the future is canceled expand further on this type of idea)
That’s not to say new rock music is all bad, because I actually like some of the new stuff I hear but because of the renewal of past trends without any significant breakthrough into the culture.
I guess for me the number one symptom of rock being dead is new bands with a retro sound saying there bringing rock back.
That’s a symptom of the haunting.
The definitive stamp of being undead.

oasis comes to mind for me along with jet in bands I would argue make rock undead.

 

[Guitalia]

I love Zappa, but that's BS. Showbiz is showbiz and it's always been showbiz: there have always been marketing people that either help put out what the people want or put out what they want the people to want and strategically get them to want it.

1960s, 2020s, the agenda is the same for media companies: to make money. Something becomes popular, either by accident, chance or with work and intention behind it, and then all the copycats come out or are lab-created by the execs/managers/producers.

And just the same, there are always those going against the grain and trying to carve a unique space, who are outside the mainstream.

Nothing you wrote contradicts a single thing that Zappa said in the clip.

 

[Richard Martin]

I don't know, my teenagers can't stand modern music. Their play lists are full of "oldies" from the 70's-80's. So there's hope for the future.

The originals Oldies, 50's music, had its star shine bright right before it went out. The movie Grease didn't even come out until 1978 and Grease 2 was 1982.

 

[drumvsbass]

This is more due to the way music is listened to today than whether rock is or isn't dead. Think about the popular artists of today. How much of their audience actually attends concerts? Or even buys CDs? The way the "kids" listen to music today is streaming via youtube or Spotify. They may buy a single or hit, but not albums.

Yea kids these days don't go to concerts... They don't support new artists they way they used too.

 

[Relayer71]

Yea kids these days don't go to concerts... They don't support new artists they way they used too.

View attachment 4115100

I didn't say all kids. And I'm just relating what I see from having 2 kids. Concert going doesn't seem to be a big thing within the younger one's peer group, unlike with the older one when she was a teen just 10 years ago.

Again, doesn't apply to everyone, but I still stand by concert going being more of a thing when i was a teen in the 80s. Just like wanting to be in or form a band. Kids still want to make music, but today with software they don't have to form a band or play live (or even really play an instrument that well).

 

[Altitude]

One thing that is sadly different -

As recently as the 90s, an artist like Young MC wanted a killer bass part in one of his songs. So he called Flea and the rest is history; "Bust a Move" is a legendary rock-R&B bass contribution. That was cool.

In the '10s similarly talented artists like Charlie Puth and Dua Lipa decide they want a cool bass part to drive one of their songs. Rather than calling a bass icon to play on their record, they call up sample patch #5810, which sounds enough like a real bass to fool bass players, and they use that instead. No one will be talking about the bassline from "Attention" or "Don't Start Now" in 30 years. That feels like a loss.

 

[Relayer71]

Yea kids these days don't go to concerts... They don't support new artists they way they used too.

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Besides...those kids aren't watching a concert... They're looking at their phones! Look at that front row.

 

[Roger W]

It's because they were first, originators, eponymous, and defined that which followed. In other words were in the right place at the right time. Like Elvis, The Beatles, Zeppelin, or any other artists whose careers paralleled musical or technical advancement or social change. There is no lack of modern talent, it's just that for now everything has already been done.

[pedantry mode]The end of time will maybe occur in about 200 billion years when the universe as we know it will probably end. But our solar system will end in about 5 billion years so unless humans expand out into the universe and take classical music with them, it will only last until the end of the earth rather than the end of time.[/pedantry mode]

Except for Bach. He was considered out of date and old fashioned in his time.

 

[LBS-bass]

considering the fact that I watched videos of the latest tour and you could hear Paul sing 4' from the microphone....
Plus I'm pretty sure Paul admitted in his biography that the live albums were faked

That's actually not proof of anything. I was just watching an old video of a live show I did in the 90's and at times my mic was more than a foot away from me, when I was singing loud parts and also blending with the background vocals. It sometimes just means you've got a hot mic and decent technique because you learned to use a mic in the good old days before compression.

 

[Roger W]

Who then? Colter Wall? It's modern only in the sense that he's not old, but it's not "modern country" nor fast & hard nor vaguely rock. Luke Bryant is pop/hip hop, and not at all country nor rock. I really dislike most things labeled country since before 1980something, but I'm curious to check out something considered modern, country, hard & fast, and/or rock like.

Cody Jinks

 

[dkelley]

Keep in mind that KISS just set 2, possibly 3 world records with their New Year's Eve concert. They're still pretty relevant, even if it's all because of their legend, because of curiosity, because of showmanship, but it's all very business-oriented thanks to Gene.

In fact I'd say that Gene's business skills are one of the reasons why Rock still has some popularity. Business is just as important as actual musical content, and while Gene is actually a half decent rock musician, he's a brilliant and tough businessman. He's backed some far more talented bands over the decades over and over, financially, you know .... little known talents like Van Halen.

So Gene has done his part to keep rock alive

 

[Wood and Wire]

He's made a massively more successful career out of (rock) music than most in here will ever achieve...

... than anyone here will ever achieve.

If you haven't already achieved that level of success, you never will. It's too late.

Rock, as a vital commercial proposition, is dead.

That ship has sailed.

The legacy acts will do absolutely fine, until the orginal band members, or their audience dies - whichever happens first.

New rock acts are in the unfortunate situation, that it's no longer a sustainability lucrative genre for large labels, with the finances to drive the necessary market penetration, to invest in.

That means it's only going to be a local level hobby, or a sideline, supported by patrons, and grass roots networks.

None of that means there isn't still plenty of great, new rock music being made, or that rock music fans should give up the ghost, and get with the times.

It just means that in the current musical climate, there are not going to be any new true rockstars, or truly original rock bands that are household names.

Eventually there will be a new musical revolution, and whatever the instrumentation, or genre, their popularity will be determined by a refusal to adhere to algorithmic trends (or at least an attempt to outpace / outfox them for as long as possible).

 

[Deleted member 165050]

... than anyone here will ever achieve.

If you haven't already achieved that level of success, you never will. It's too late.

Rock, as a vital commercial proposition, is dead.

That ship has sailed.

...

But... but... I haven't quite found the right lineup yet! I felt sure if I just fired the drummer then rock superstardom was just round the corner! So unfair.

 

[drumvsbass]

Besides...those kids aren't watching a concert... They're looking at their phones! Look at that front row.

Kids these days, no idea what good music is at all... Good music would never sell out Madison Square Gardens these days... No attention span.

 

[Polkatronixx]

Kids these days, no idea what good music is at all... Good music would never sell out Madison Square Gardens these days... No attention span.

You're right...GOOD music wouldn't sell out MSG.

 

[Relayer71]

Kids these days, no idea what good music is at all... Good music would never sell out Madison Square Gardens these days... No attention span.

Don't (indirectly) put words in my mouth. I never said kids have no idea what good music is.

As for attention span, I already clarified I didn't mean ALL kids (obviously). But you quoted me saying kids were looking at the phone in the front row in that image and, well, they were.

And never heard of Vulfpeck before, but that sounds pretty good.

 

[BassJuju]

FWIW, I think he's correct on all but one point.

Rock On!

 

[Old_Noob]

How can rock and roll be "dead" if God Gave Rock and Roll To You?

 

[drumvsbass]

Don't (indirectly) put words in my mouth. I never said kids have no idea what good music is.

As for attention span, I already clarified I didn't mean ALL kids (obviously). But you quoted me saying kids were looking at the phone in the front row in that image and, well, they were.

And never heard of Vulfpeck before, but that sounds pretty good.

So... take me up on my challenge? Name 10 rock bands that could sell out a 20 date stadium tour that are younger than 20 years in the business. If you (or anyone here) can do that, I would gladly (and happily) admit that rock isn't a dead artform, and that all of it's greatness could be boiled down to the catalogs of a few major archetypes like The Beatles, Zeppelin, Sabbath, Queen, Floyd, ACDC, Rush or some combination of thereof. (I'm sure some contrarian will pipe up here to say that Sabbath is metal...)

The argument from many (it seems, yourself included) is that kids don't consume music in that fashion anymore, which the first picture of Billie Eilish argues against. They definitely go to concerts. What they do at concerts might be different, but they pay for tickets, and they buy the merch same as any Iron Maiden fan, and they probably pay as much attention as the average Iron Maiden fan. Shouting along to the tunes they know, Tweeting about it or going for a Beer respectively during the filler tracks, catching the big hits at the end of the show, shouting for an encore more so that they don't have to go home, than to be subjected to more back catalog deep cuts from the unknown.
As for whether people go to concerts to actually listen to, and enjoy music. The Vulfpeck clip argues for that quite beautifully. Both of these artists are younger than 20 years in the business and are able to sell out large venues as a metric of popularity. Neither of them would be considered ROCK.

Is Gretas Canned Beets the best rock has to offer of the last ten years?

This is why Gene Simmons says rock is dead.

Where is the new blood?

There isn't any.

Does it even matter if rock is dead? or Jazz? or Classical? or Dubstep?

Nope.

Music will be just fine.

 

[lordradish]

Gene Simmons was bassist for KISS, that should say all there is to know about his knowledge of good rock music, which isn't much. We used to call their music "bubble gum rock". Sorry, if I sound harsh.

Not harsh, accurate. There's a reason I found it appealing when I was 8.