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Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 discussion thread

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Kelly Lee

Yeah, I'm a guy!
Supporting Member
Feb 17, 2004
6,317
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Marana, AZ, USA
www.actshooters.com
OK, it seems that some would like to actually talk about this amp without the trolling, finger pointing, and other crap that the two previous threads have had. So, I have started this one.

Note, this is for anyone, endorsed artist, people just dreaming about one, those that don't even like GB amps. It doesn't matter who you are as all are welcome to post your respectful opinions and comments here. However, if you don't want to play by Talkbass rules then don't post.

Play nice. :cool:
 
I'd like to hear from those who have compared the Shuttle 6.0 and 9.0 - does the 9.0 differ in sound? Or is it more a fuller "presence" due to the extra power/headroom than a difference in sound?
thanks.
 
was banned a coupla times already but here goes hehe.I'll never dog anything about the benz!!

naa...tried a shuttle once...Now have a GBE 1200...NEVER turning back!!seemed just a lil empty and almost tinny/hollow compared to the GBE's.I find the Gbe's have mnore gorwl and headroom and just more what I was after.And somehow the looks of the shuttles werent bad@$$ enough for me haha.

as my bro/drummer says-"with the GBE 1200 I can FEEL you know-not just hear you like your old one".

Needless to say the shuttles are amazing but just not for me...so far..

Hope you enjoy yours!!
 
I'd like to hear from those who have compared the Shuttle 6.0 and 9.0 - does the 9.0 differ in sound? Or is it more a fuller "presence" due to the extra power/headroom than a difference in sound?
thanks.

The Shuttle 9.0 is supposed to be a bit 'bassier' than the 6.0. I think this is due to the Shuttle 6.0 and 3.0 being tailored towards operation with the small cabs they were often sold with. Correct me if I'm wrong though Genz Benz guys.

I'm really looking foward to this amp and I must say that this is a truly exciting period for the bass world with the regards to amplification.
 
I wonder if the extra headroom of the 9.0 would allow me to drive my two Berg cabs to their potential, without getting too far into the compression/limiting of the tube-emulating output O/L function. I love the sound of my 6.0 at lower volumes, but I feel like I'm losing that definition and crispness at louder volumes. Things seem to get mushier when the O/L light is doing it's thing.

The SM 12 would certainly help in that sense, and maybe I'd favor the FET channel and blend function, too. But the tiny form factor of the 6.0/9.0 is so tempting.
 
I'd like to hear from those who have compared the Shuttle 6.0 and 9.0 - does the 9.0 differ in sound? Or is it more a fuller "presence" due to the extra power/headroom than a difference in sound?
thanks.

As I posted on the first Shuttle 9.0? thread which has grown into a mega thread (I think?) I bought the 6.0 and then 2 weeks later the 9.0 came out so I was able to return the 6.0 and get the 9.0

I've had it for a few days now. At lower volume, it sounds identical to the 6.0 yet there's definitely a bit more presence to the sound. When cranked, oh man! there's definitely a lot more headroom. It does sound fuller. When practicing with the band, I sometimes had to go up to 1:00 on the master volume with the 6. With the 9, it's at about 10:00 position at most.

Bottom line: sound is almost the same. It's fuller sounding but not too different. Am I happy I made the trade? Yes. I never ran out of volume with the 6.0 but I was always worried I might. I guess I was never blown away by the 6.0 volume wise which is strange because it's 600(!) watts but with the 9.0 I get that punch I felt the 6.0 was lacking.

I hope this makes sense and it helps, FWIW

BTW: I play through a GB NeoX 212. This comparison was made using only the 212.
 
I currently have both. I don't hear a lot of difference in sound so far between the 6.0 and the 9.0.

I upgraded the tube in the 6.0 with a premium 12AX7-LPS, which, contrary to most opinions, made an audible difference in sound over the stock tube. I A/B'ed tubes to make sure I wasn't imagining it, too.

With the tube upgrade in place in the 6.0, I don't hear much difference from the 9.0, other than perhaps additional punchiness and a bit more perceived bass. I would think the differences are somewhat more manifest when playing at high volume, which I have not done yet. But I have played at low and moderately loud levels through a number of my different cabs, with different basses. I intend to continue to switch back and forth between the two heads and test for differences.

IMHO, I don't think that the majority of players would deem the sound differences worth the price differential between a new 9.0 and a used 6.0.. a spread of about $250-300. A good condition 6.0 is a heck of a amplifier for bass. Maybe not the latest and greatest thing, but the value is amazing at this point. I consider the 9.0 to be an incremental upgrade, and definitely not a major one.
 
I wonder if the extra headroom of the 9.0 would allow me to drive my two Berg cabs to their potential, without getting too far into the compression/limiting of the tube-emulating output O/L function. I love the sound of my 6.0 at lower volumes, but I feel like I'm losing that definition and crispness at louder volumes. Things seem to get mushier when the O/L light is doing it's thing.

The SM 12 would certainly help in that sense, and maybe I'd favor the FET channel and blend function, too. But the tiny form factor of the 6.0/9.0 is so tempting.

I'd like to hear more about this...... I may be doing a Big Benz purchase shortly. Ive thoroughly auditioned both the 6.0 and STMX 12.0 through headphones ( as my dealer hasn't any GB cabs in stock.... or any other cabs I felt I could give a faithful audition for the amps) and Im completely impressed. However, one thing that's always been VERY important to me is power. To me, a speaker cabinet and it's tone is only as good as the power behind it - therefore Ive been a components-only guy for years.... favoring big PA power amps and bass specific preamps.

In order to test any amp's power section to my satisfaction, my dealer pretty much makes me show up an hour before opening time. I play in a VERY loud band, and I need to really have a grasp on an amp's performance limits. I would rather use a crappy sounding head with an honest 1000+ watt output than a boutique amp with 450 watts. I may be traveling out of town in a few weeks to really put these things through the paces. I have to decide between a STL 9.0 / Uber 810 combo or a STLMX 12.0 / 2 X Uber 212 combo.

Can anyone else give some opinions on these amps' power output and performance? Anyone with components / lead sled experience who can compare the GB's to similarly rated AB / linear heads in terms of power output?
 
The 9.0 is the first amp in a long time to come around that I might by sound-unheard (as opposed to sight-unseen??). Nah, I've got to try it. I'm looking for a lightweight amp that has a warmer, tubey tone that is able to be felt as well as heard. I actually plan on looking at this, a couple of GK's (which I don't think will cut it), Markbass, and some Mesa's (whose cost pretty much eliminate them). The 9.0 seems to have everything I'm looking for, and has come along at the right time.

If anyone can comment on if the 9.0 is a warmer tone that other shuttles, and if it there is enough power-wise to get a 2X12 pushing but with enough headroom to still be clean, I would greatly appreciate it. FWIW, I was very impressed with its tone in the Ed Freidland video on Youtube.
 
I have the 6,9 and 12.
The 12 seems to be the warmest of them all. perhaps due to the different EQ on the front end.... The bottom end of the 9 and 12 are similar but the 12 still sounds warmer to me even though the 9 has more power than the 600 watts per channel of the 12. So im guessing it is the preamp section...

When the 6.0 first came out i noticed a difference between the GB1200 and the 6.0.. two different architectures and power ratings altogether though.
And the 6 was Class D.. No Class D sounds like a lead sled to me.. But i really like the tube on the shuttle stuff since it does something to the tone.. not gritty at all.. people think that just because there is a tube there it will be gritty .. not so. tubes can be just as clean and smooth as FETs SS.. there is a different tonal signature though....IMO

The situations that i was using my 6.0 in never left me for want... And it was light and i can fly to gigs with it in my gig bag...

The 12.0 is voiced differently so it seems to the 6. The 12 is warmer overall.. again the 12 has two semi Para mids EQ sections.. The 12 is one of my favorites..

Now the 9.0 seems very open. from top to bottom.. Is there a different poweramp module in there??.. i dont know..I have not popped the hood on mine yet....but the 9 has a nice round bass tone all controls up at 12 noon, and its only a few ounces more than the 6, same size as the 6.0 too..

It appears to have the same front end as the 6.
The 9 has more perceived lows than the 6, not sure if that is due to a different power module or what.. But is pretty cool...
All of these statements are IMHO of course
 
So far i only have about 4 gigs on my Shuttle9... so im still messing with it...
I think the MAX series has the warmest tone so far...perhaps a max 6 or max12 might suit you... but i will say that the 9 has a round bottom... and a somewhat open top..... and a nice amount of clear headroom


The 9.0 is the first amp in a long time to come around that I might by sound-unheard (as opposed to sight-unseen??). Nah, I've got to try it. I'm looking for a lightweight amp that has a warmer, tubey tone that is able to be felt as well as heard. I actually plan on looking at this, a couple of GK's (which I don't think will cut it), Markbass, and some Mesa's (whose cost pretty much eliminate them). The 9.0 seems to have everything I'm looking for, and has come along at the right time.

If anyone can comment on if the 9.0 is a warmer tone that other shuttles, and if it there is enough power-wise to get a 2X12 pushing but with enough headroom to still be clean, I would greatly appreciate it. FWIW, I was very impressed with its tone in the Ed Freidland video on Youtube.
 
Let me clarify on some of the speculations regarding the differences in the various perceived differences between the GBE, Shuttles and ShuttleMax's to keep this thread from becoming one of constant second-guessing.

All of these amps were designed and voiced by the same folks. Without pigeon-holing any particular model, the criteria considered things like the size and tuning of the specific cabinet class, style of music and expected SPL, type of player and (to a small degree) their skill and experience level that the class of amp is likely to be used with. All of these amps are switchable between 115/230/240V, making them more attractive to the international touring guys.

For example, the Shuttle 3.0 is unlikely to be desireable to a heavy metal or thrash player because it does not have enough power to be an even remotely reasonable choice but it is definately popular amongst players of Jazz, rock, causals, theatre, praise/worship, and harder styles with good PA support. Also, the 3.0 is popular amongst folks who consider size and weight of the entire rig (including speakers) of prime importance, so to accomodate this the highpass filter is set slightly higher then our other models, which improves the performance of both the amp and the typical sub-compact speakers (by any manufacturer) way down low. Note that the pre-eq DI out on all of our amps is pre HPF, so the signal you send to the board is full bandwidth (all good PA's HPF the subs anyway, so it's not something we need to address and to double up on HPF's would compromise performance).

The Shuttle 6.0 is a more mainstream amp, still probably not the ideal hard-core/metal/thrash amp due to the limited power unless good PA support is available, but will drive larger cabinets with ease. It's voicing includes a HPF with a slightly lower turnover frequency and when combined with the remaining filter and preamp voicing, is more solid into compact and larger cabinets. The LF extend frequency, slope, Q and symmetry is also voiced to improve overall performance into the larger cabinets. The tube voicing also contributes to the perceived warmness, though it's been kept somewhat subtle to be used as a tool rather than jumping out screaming TUBE OVERDRIVE. The Pre-eq DI out is before the HPF's, so into a real PA, there's zero compromise regarding LF bandwidth. This is a popular amp amongst our touring users who must rely on fly dates, it's a simple, straight ahead, compact, lightweight amp with features that a more pro player is likely to need.

The Shuttle 9.0 is very similar to the 6.0, but again has a very slightly lower HPF frequency because we have additional headroom to work with and it's unlikely that this amp would be used (at high volumes or extended low end) with sub-compact cabinets, so we have more margin to work with. The 9.0 pairs nicely with cabinets from the compact (like Neo-X 212) on up, but I caution against expecting such performance with sub-compact speakers like the STL series (or those by other manufacturers) since the amp has too much power and runs the risk of overdriving models without adequate power handling and LF excursion limiting tuning. The 9.0 would be an amp to consider for all styles provided it's paired up to a cabinet that's also suitable.

The ShuttleMax's are very similar to the Shuttle's, there is a slight difference in the voicing because of the added gain (switched) in the front end, the variable tone shaping & voicing filters, additional eq, and slightly different signal path topology. This is why they sound a little different than the Shuttles, and with the Max 12.0 used with 2 x 4 ohm speakers, of course there will be significant additional headroom which does help an amp open up when driven hard. The voicing is probably closest to the 9.0 but must be taken in context with the additional feature set. The Max 12.0 is another amp suitable for all styles when paired with an appropriate cabinet choice. The Max 12 also contains a back-up power supply that will run the entire preamp and second power amp in the unlikely event of a module failure. I do not know of this feature being used at this point, but it's nice to know it's there if you need it.

The GBE 750 & 1200 uses similar but at the same time different signal path topology, clearly these amps are not for a player looking for sub-compact or lightweight so the voicing assumes they will be used with compact or larger cabinets and high volume and low frequency extension are expected. The input voicing is a little different, the slopes and response of the HPF and the interaction with the voicing filters consider the likely player and cabinet type (certaily a better choice for hard core, thrash and heavier metal) to gove an overall different flavor within our typical voicing. The tube channel has a little more gain than the Shuttle 6/9 but less than the Max 12. The 750/1200 will both drive 2 ohm loads directly, the Max will drive a 2 ohm load comprised of 2 x 4 ohm cabinets, each driven by it's own amp module.

All in all, the differences in voicing and LF response between the Shuttle 6/9 and Max 6/12 is really very, very small. Some is due to a perception because there is additional power available which allows for more headroom when playing harder. IIRC, the difference is between 5 and 7Hz, there will be maybe as much variation in speaker response & tuning given the tolerances of the average drivers in a production sampling. Another thing to consider when evaluating perceived warmth is the contribution of the tube, and the variability that each tube brings to the table. While we have tried to minimze the variability between tube samples in the design, we have not eliminated this, so easc tube will sound slightly different.

So, for the techies here I hope this helps, and for you other guys I hope it didn't bore you to death.
 
Great post! Thanks for taking the time to really spell everything out amongst the product line. Are you guys willing to discuss the actual value of the HPF's used and the correlating slopes of them? If it needs to be via PM or email that would be fine too. Thanks again for taking the time to type out that long post.
 
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