Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 discussion thread

[Musicman20]

. While I'm looking forward to the next Genz head, unlike many of you hear I hope very much that it is NOT a Max 18.0. I don't see any appeal in that design at all. The 9.0 has plenty of power for most gigging players, and with the dual channels and EQ, it just makes the head to big for someone who wants a small head IMO.

What I'd like to see is instead are more features on a small head, such as an even more versatile EQ (two semi-para mid controls), and adjustable pre-shape filters. Especially nice would be a tone control much like the VLE on the Markbass heads, or the Tweetertone on the TC Electronic combos. That one knob alone goes a long way toward letting you get some old-school vibe out of an otherwise modern or bright sounding head. The Genz heads are all very bright to begin with, including the 9.0, so a knob like this would open up the head to a much larger user audience.

I have to agree. Im not sure what will come next, but anything over 900 watts is just overkill, if we are talking a full on 900w.

Not only that, the Max amps are too large for what im looking for, despite the fact they are still light.

I personally would like 0 preshapes, and have something else on the front panel.

 

[Red Planet]

I suppose they could make a 2000 watt amp the size of a pack of Cigarettes.

At some point you reach diminishing returns with this stuff.

Bass players as a whole want simple, good sound, plenty of power, and the small lightweight thing is just icing on the cake.

900 bells and whistles will never catch on for very long. Yes some folks will love that but the majority want a lightweight powerful SVT in a box.

I don't see how much further this can be taken but I'm wrong quite often.

 

[Eublet]

I don't see how much further this can be taken but I'm wrong quite often.

Well, considering the 9.0 sounds nothing like an SVT, then it could be taken pretty far if that was their goal. It's obvious that Genz isn't trying to sound like an SVT, while other micro-heads are going after that sound very directly. That's all good, and each company will attract different players I suspect. Markbass is the defacto player in the lightweight arena. They have seem to have as many products on the market as all the other companies combined, with a highly varied tonal range across them. Genz on the other hand is very much going after the somewhat bright/articulate/focused tone it seems. TC Electronic is going straight after the SVT sound and they've attracted players who come from that background as a result. I think it's cool that all these companies are doing something different. I was mostly just responding to your one comment about companies having to scramble to keep up with Genz as it seems all these companies are being very successful at targeting the group of players they are wanting to target. If anything, companies have been scrambling to catch up to Markbass IMHO. Of course that doesn't mean we all have to like something from their lineup, but the sheer number of products they offer is quite astounding.

 

[Musicman20]

Well, considering the 9.0 sounds nothing like an SVT, then it could be taken pretty far if that was their goal. It's obvious that Genz isn't trying to sound like an SVT, while other micro-heads are going after that sound very directly. That's all good, and each company will attract different players I suspect. Markbass is the defacto player in the lightweight arena. They have seem to have as many products on the market as all the other companies combined, with a highly varied tonal range across them. Genz on the other hand is very much going after the somewhat bright/articulate/focused tone it seems. TC Electronic is going straight after the SVT sound and they've attracted players who come from that background as a result. I think it's cool that all these companies are doing something different. I was mostly just responding to your one comment about companies having to scramble to keep up with Genz as it seems all these companies are being very successful at targeting the group of players they are wanting to target. If anything, companies have been scrambling to catch up to Markbass IMHO. Of course that doesn't mean we all have to like something from their lineup, but the sheer number of products they offer is quite astounding.

Again, we are reading from the same sheet here, I have to agree. When set flat:

Genz to me is very bright, non grind, articulate and clear. They go for the ultra light side of the spectrum. 900W (if it is indeed 900W - Im not starting an argument) is VERY impressive for such a small box. I still want one despite the fact I had to send mine back as it had issues. But I kinda have the micro amps side of gear covered.

TC to me is more mid focussed, less treble, more punch and 'tubelike' heft. Very much following the SVT in a small box idea. Masses of bass if you want it. Not so light but fully laden with quality features. Very high quality build.

MB are the clear front runners with their massive amount of products. MB to me is a warm, focussed, and clear tone. Very surprising when you first hear it, (I was literally stunned when I first played with a LM2, but this was the first light amp Id tried). Yet again, very high quality build.

The one thing I really liked with the TC is the packaging and overall finish. It comes across like Apple. Cool packaging, extra lead included, and it does scream 'wow' when you open the box.

The MB (especially if you have never had a micro) is just damn cool when you take it out. Plug in and play, no settings to mess with really.

When I opened my Shuttle 9.0, I must admit the weight frightened me a little! It is SO small and light its unreal.

 

[jzucker]

how many folks have had to send the shuttles back? I want something I don't have to worry about.

 

[jzucker]

Can the benz shuttle amps get the totally transparent solo tone ala Tony Grey?

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I picked up a carvin bx500 which is totally transparent and pretty much nails that tone but it's already on the fritz after 5 hours so I'm returning it. Looking for something equivalent but dependable.

 

[Musicman20]

how many folks have had to send the shuttles back? I want something I don't have to worry about.

Well, no doubt knowing my luck and keen eye I was probably quite a rarity (eg I dont think many of the Shuttle 9.0s have issues at all).

It was enough to make me worry though

 

[KJung]

Can the benz shuttle amps get the totally transparent solo tone ala Tony Grey?

Invalid Link Removed

I picked up a carvin bx500 which is totally transparent and pretty much nails that tone but it's already on the fritz after 5 hours so I'm returning it. Looking for something equivalent but dependable.

I wouldn't call a particular bass tone 'transparent' Tony has that 'soap bar loaded bass played close to the bridge favoring the bridge pickup a touch' tone, which to me is more of a low end rolled off, top end rolled off, warm mid mid present tone. Any head should be able to achieve that, although the Genz voicing is a bit on the bright upper mid side of things versus the warm, round midrangey tone that Tony goes for.

 

[jzucker]

I wouldn't call a particular bass tone 'transparent' Tony has that 'soap bar loaded bass played close to the bridge favoring the bridge pickup a touch' tone, which to me is more of a low end rolled off, top end rolled off, warm mid mid present tone. Any head should be able to achieve that, although the Genz voicing is a bit on the bright upper mid side of things versus the warm, round midrangey tone that Tony goes for.

the markbass LMII did not do well with that tone. I'm looking for a tone that sounds like pat metheny's bright size life tone an octave lower!

 

[KJung]

the markbass LMII did not do well with that tone. I'm looking for a tone that sounds like pat metheny's bright size life tone an octave lower!

+1 That tone needs a bit of low mid push relative to deep low end (IMO), and the LMII's low mid control is set unfortunately too high to be good for much. The Shuttle, with the low mids boosted and the treble cut back should work fine. On the MB side of things, the F500 with the low mids boosted at around 100 or 200hz (depending on the cab and bass) and the top end softened with the VLE (lo passing around 1 or 2K) would also work great.

The RH450 kind of has that tone profile built in (i.e., deep lows and highs rolled out, and a bit of a low mid bump 'hardwired in'), but it is a bit 'warm and wooly' sounding (it is kind of voiced to emulate the old Ampeg voicing out of the box), which might not work for you.

 

[jzucker]

if MB had a treble control at 5k I'd probably get one but the 10k treble doesn't work for me. Plus, their heads are very colored. I'm looking for an amp that can sound like a completely flat power amp if need be. In fact, I want it to double as a power amp running an axe-fx into the effect return of the amp. The MB power amp is not flat so it didn't work well for that. (I'm speaking of the LMII). The other power amps may be different.

 

[Red Planet]

Well, considering the 9.0 sounds nothing like an SVT, then it could be taken pretty far if that was their goal. It's obvious that Genz isn't trying to sound like an SVT, while other micro-heads are going after that sound very directly. That's all good, and each company will attract different players I suspect. Markbass is the defacto player in the lightweight arena. They have seem to have as many products on the market as all the other companies combined, with a highly varied tonal range across them. Genz on the other hand is very much going after the somewhat bright/articulate/focused tone it seems. TC Electronic is going straight after the SVT sound and they've attracted players who come from that background as a result. I think it's cool that all these companies are doing something different. I was mostly just responding to your one comment about companies having to scramble to keep up with Genz as it seems all these companies are being very successful at targeting the group of players they are wanting to target. If anything, companies have been scrambling to catch up to Markbass IMHO. Of course that doesn't mean we all have to like something from their lineup, but the sheer number of products they offer is quite astounding.

I was not inferring that the 9.0 nailed the SVT tone. I was making the statement as to what Bass players want as a whole. A good sound that is light and powerful. The simple units prevail in the long run. I see some of the others as selling an idea but can not deliver on the meat and potatoes. IMHO YMMV

 

[Musicman20]

I was not inferring that the 9.0 nailed the SVT tone. I was making the statement as to what Bass players want as a whole. A good sound that is light and powerful. The simple units prevail in the long run. I see some of the others as selling an idea but can not deliver on the meat and potatoes. IMHO YMMV

I know what you mean, as sometimes simple is best.

Hell, my AD200b Mk3 is the simplest amp Ive ever owned. I dont touch the EQ, just the tone control on my bass and change the gain to suit whether I want that awesome real grind at low volume levels.

I still think the simplest micro that sounds great flat is the Markbass line. Plug in, play, thats it. I dont touch the EQ apart from small mid changes.

So, jumping on the RH450 was a big step for me as I like an amp to sound good without fiddling, and IMO it does, and it sound MASSIVE compared to most the micro amps.

Im still hoping my experience with the 9.0 was just a bad day for me, and that Ill hear one live and be blown away. I like GB and their whole approach, especially their input on here.

 

[jzucker]

I don't agree that the MB sounds flat. At least not the LMII. It's very colored. It happens to sound great for ensemble playing but flat it is not.

I know what you mean, as sometimes simple is best.

Hell, my AD200b Mk3 is the simplest amp Ive ever owned. I dont touch the EQ, just the tone control on my bass and change the gain to suit whether I want that awesome real grind at low volume levels.

I still think the simplest micro that sounds great flat is the Markbass line. Plug in, play, thats it. I dont touch the EQ apart from small mid changes.

So, jumping on the RH450 was a big step for me as I like an amp to sound good without fiddling, and IMO it does, and it sound MASSIVE compared to most the micro amps.

Im still hoping my experience with the 9.0 was just a bad day for me, and that Ill hear one live and be blown away. I like GB and their whole approach, especially their input on here.

 

[KJung]

I don't agree that the MB sounds flat. At least not the LMII. It's very colored. It happens to sound great for ensemble playing but flat it is not.

It's actually been show to be pretty flat on the scope by a number of the EE guys. Flat is surely not necessarily a good thing with backline bass amplification. Similar to the Acme cabs, which really are about as 'flat' of a speaker as you can get, to many of us, they sound dark, overly extended in the low end, and very polite attenuated up top to some. And, SO much has to do with where the lo and hi pass filtering is set on amps. For example, the EA iAmp800 was reasonably flat, but had HUGE low end and upper treble sizzle voiced into it, due to the hi pass being set very low, and the lo pass being set very high. The RH450 seems relatively even WITHIN its range, but that range has been attenuated on purpose to give you more of an old school vibe (which makes it sound a bit dark and lower mid present due to the low end and top end being purposefully attenuated). Etc., etc., etc.

The issue is, many of us hear 'transparent' as 'bright and tight' (versus flat). That Carvin head is REALLY goosed up top, and closer to the voicing of the Genz. If you dug the Carvin, IMO the Genz will work for you.

Kind of a moot point though... the key is to find an amp you dig that doesn't take a lot of knob twisting.

 

[Eublet]

I don't agree that the MB sounds flat. At least not the LMII. It's very colored. It happens to sound great for ensemble playing but flat it is not.

The LMII is the flattest head I've ever heard. Put it into a hi-fi cab, and it sounds like your plugging into a nice studio console. Very warm and punchy with no dips or peaks. Very different from Genz or TC Electronic. I love all three!

 

[Eublet]

if MB had a treble control at 5k I'd probably get one but the 10k treble doesn't work for me.

I used to think that, but the Treble combined with the VLE let's you get a whole range of top-end tones out of the LMII/III. Have you ever seen the EQ curves that have been measured with that head? In essence, if you want to add some 4 or 5k grind, you dial up the Treble, then cut the top off of it with the VLE. It might seem counter productive at first, but it works beautifully.

[/quote]Plus, their heads are very colored. I'm looking for an amp that can sound like a completely flat power amp if need be. In fact, I want it to double as a power amp running an axe-fx into the effect return of the amp. The MB power amp is not flat so it didn't work well for that. (I'm speaking of the LMII). The other power amps may be different.[/quote]Again, the LMII has been shown by several folks here, including Bass Gear Magazine, to be one of the flattest amps in production. If you want pure, unaltered tone from your bass, it's hard to beat the LMII/III. If you aren't hearing it as such, with all due respect, it's probably something you are expecting to hear (a bump or dip somewhere) that causes you not to like it. It could be the cab you paired it with, or something else.

 

[KJung]

The LMII is the flattest head I've ever heard. Put it into a hi-fi cab, and it sounds like your plugging into a nice studio console. Very warm and punchy with no dips or peaks. Very different from Genz or TC Electronic. I love all three!

+1 Also, there is an interesting thread regarding cab specs that Agedhorse has posted in quite a bit (and I agree with everything he's posted).

It is a losing game to talk about 'flat' with any individual component of a bass amplification system. A 'flat' head through a very voiced cab can sound awful if the head's EQ center points, etc. don't line up with the peaks and valleys of the cab, etc., etc. And, we sometimes forget that basses are not a 'constant input source' like a CD player. Each bass has its peaks and valleys, and then roll in the player, where different technique can TOTALLY change the nature of the signal going into an amp.

It's all about the mix and match and how stuff works together, and (speaking from my day job as a statistician and new product development consultant), the 'bass guitar amplification system' is so complex, that you can't really model it. We are probably talking about not only dozens of variables that impact the final sound coming out of the box, but multiway interactions between all those variables, resulting in thousands of inputs that all combine to 'make a sound'.

That's why companies like Genz, where Agedhorse voices the amp and cabs to not necessarily impress the EE's, but to sound good as an electric bass amplification system are so successful. Of course, any company's 'voicing approach' won't work for all players, but I like the approach in general!

Finally, it seems the best definition of 'transparent' as it is used on Talkbass is 'sounds good to me'!

IMO!

 

[Eublet]

I was not inferring that the 9.0 nailed the SVT tone. I was making the statement as to what Bass players want as a whole. A good sound that is light and powerful. The simple units prevail in the long run. I see some of the others as selling an idea but can not deliver on the meat and potatoes. IMHO YMMV

Why does a simple unit prevail in the long run? There are a lot of simple ideas that have flopped in the market, and there are some complex units that have had great success.

I do agree that there are some other lightweight products out there that don't meet my needs, but by and large most of the lightweight products deliver what they say they deliver. I might not particularly care for the tone of all of them. Meat and potatoes is a very subjective thing IMHO, and everybody likes their momma's cookin' best.

 

[Musicman20]

The LMII is the flattest head I've ever heard. Put it into a hi-fi cab, and it sounds like your plugging into a nice studio console. Very warm and punchy with no dips or peaks. Very different from Genz or TC Electronic. I love all three!

Agreed. Pair it with some Berg cabinets (like the HT112ER+EX112ER) and its crystal clear studio grade sound.