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Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0

#182
gnarly dudes!

spicoli-fast-times-ridgemont-high-surf-no-dice.jpg
 
#186
I hesitate to post something less than positive about an obviously well-designed/engineered/built MI product from a company with such obviously great customer support, but I would offer this:
I don't understand the apparent desire to (as a default position) protect users from low frequencies with the built-in low filter curve that the Genz Benz preamps have and then provide an extra circuit that allows you to recompensate by adding them back in.
The cleanest signal should always be the shortest path with the least processing involved -- why not just make that the default preamp curve and warn users that excess low frequencies may cause damage to their speaker systems and have one or two low frequency filters that the user can activate?

Most of the bru-ha-ha of the BGM review of the GBE1200 was the result of using this approach.

Great products, great service, and a lot of people like them, but give us bass players a little bit of credit for being able to use stuff in a reasonable way.
Either way there will be those users who will abuse the low end capabilities of these amps and fry some drivers, so why not keep it simple and just add warnings in
BIG RED LETTERS!?
 
#189
lo-freq said:
If you're talking about the average guitarist or drummer, I can see that, but BASS GUITARISTS...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

well, when you deal with guys that loosen the strings on their neck-through every time they're not playing it because they heard that "it's not good to keep tension on a neck-through design"


and then various other shenanigans like that....


:scowl:


:D
 
#191
lo-freq said:
I don't understand the apparent desire to (as a default position) protect users from low frequencies with the built-in low filter curve that the Genz Benz preamps have and then provide an extra circuit that allows you to recompensate by adding them back in.
The cleanest signal should always be the shortest path with the least processing involved -- why not just make that the default preamp curve and warn users that excess low frequencies may cause damage to their speaker systems and have one or two low frequency filters that the user can activate?
Click to expand...

Because a "flat" LF response is only one possible voicing for a bass amp, and while it may be ideal for you and your application, it may not be for others who play on different equipment and styles. In pro audio high passing a signal is often used to clean things up, to eliminate signal that is not musically related, or gets in the way of other signal. This is especially important when used with cabinets that can not reproduce 30-40Hz cleanly, including most 210 and many 410 cabinets.

Using pro audio as an example, with (real) pro audio subs, most are high-passed around 30-40Hz... just about the same as the GBE-1200. So even if your signal was "flat", there would be high pass filters out of your control anyway, many of them set even higher.

Our voicing is for those who like this approach, it's grounded in real world, touring type bass amplification, and in our (my) opinion, is better for the majority of users looking for the types of product we design/produce. Is it the "best" for everybody? No, of course not.
 
#193
agedhorse said:
Because a "flat" LF response is only one possible voicing for a bass amp, and while it may be ideal for you and your application, it may not be for others who play on different equipment and styles. In pro audio high passing a signal is often used to clean things up, to eliminate signal that is not musically related, or gets in the way of other signal. This is especially important when used with cabinets that can not reproduce 30-40Hz cleanly, including most 210 and many 410 cabinets.

Using pro audio as an example, with (real) pro audio subs, most are high-passed around 30-40Hz... just about the same as the GBE-1200. So even if your signal was "flat", there would be high pass filters out of your control anyway, many of them set even higher.

Our voicing is for those who like this approach, it's grounded in real world, touring type bass amplification, and in our (my) opinion, is better for the majority of users looking for the types of product we design/produce. Is it the "best" for everybody? No, of course not.
Click to expand...

I just know that when I had a QSC PLX1602 power amp and a Bergantino HT322 cab, I tried both low filters (50Hz and 30Hz) and I though it sounded better with no filters (I play a BEADG 5 string bass).
I have not had the opportunity to play through any of your amps to this point, I will reserve judgement until I actually play one. I'd still like to try a GBE750.
I understand your point of view.
Thanks for the response.
 
#194
lo-freq said:
I just know that when I had a QSC PLX1602 power amp and a Bergantino HT322 cab, I tried both low filters (50Hz and 30Hz) and I though it sounded better with no filters (I play a BEADG 5 string bass).
Click to expand...
It's possible that the preamp had a HPF of it's own that, when combined with the 2nd order filters of the QSC, compounded the rolloff point up higher. Do you know what the response and rolloff rate of the preamp was?

General information: Cascading filters can result in unpredictable (without the math) response depending on slopes, alignments and corner frequencies of the individual filters.
 
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#195
agedhorse said:
It's possible that the preamp had a HPF of it's own that, when combined with the 2nd order filters of the QSC, compounded the rolloff point up higher. Do you know what the response and rolloff rate of the preamp was?

General information: Cascading filters can result in unpredictable (without the math) response depending on slopes, alignments and corner frequencies of the individual filters.
Click to expand...

The preamp was a Demeter VTBP-201S.
As far as I know, it has no filters, but I don't know what the native frequency response is either.
I usually ran it with its EQ settings flat and bass switch set to 60Hz.
 
#196
bassist4dalord said:
Here's what I want. One that looks like the Shuttle 6.0 (One channel, one preamp, etc.) with 1,200 watts at 2 ohms, 600 @4 and 300 @8. None of this 2x600-Watt stuff. That just confuses me. Imagine: One of my dream Shuttle 12.0 amps on top of 2 SVT410HLF :bassist: :D
Click to expand...

Well, who wouldn't want a GBE 1200 in a box the size and weight of a Shuttle Max!

At least one reason for two output sections at 600 watts at 4 ohms rather than a single 1200 watt output section that can handle the current required at 1200 watts and 4 0hms is um, pretty much impossible in the Shuttle form factor.
 
#197
STLMAX12.gif

So just to be absolutely clear...

You can use JUST the FET preamp (and completely bypass the tube) to push both 600w amps?

That has me really intrigued since I really like the tone of the amp before the tube starts to break-up.

Sort of like the shuttle 3.0, but with 600w per side right?
 
#198
lo-freq said:
As far as I know, it has no filters, but I don't know what the native frequency response is either.
Click to expand...
I don't know either, but you/we might be surprised by the raw frequency response.

Just because a piece has a HPF, or other filters that contribute to the preamp's/amp's voicing doesn't mean the filters are detrimental to the amp's performance. This is why it's necessary to try different amps out to see what works for your own tastes and styles. There is a lot of great basses and bass gear out there by a lot of different manufacturers, it's a really nice time to be a bass player!
 
#199
::::BASSIST:::: said:
STLMAX12.gif

So just to be absolutely clear...

You can use JUST the FET preamp (and completely bypass the tube) to push both 600w amps?

That has me really intrigued since I really like the tone of the amp before the tube starts to break-up.

Sort of like the shuttle 3.0, but with 600w per side right?
Click to expand...
You can use the FET only, you can use the tube only, or you can mix them together to drive the two output sections.

And yes, the FET only on th Shuttle Max 12.0 = Shuttle 3.0 x 2 per output section!
 
#200
BuffaloBob4343 said:
And yes, the FET only on th Shuttle Max 12.0 = Shuttle 3.0 x 2 per output section!
Click to expand...
Or 4 Shuttle 3.0's... this new math is getting confusing.

Actually, one way to look at (all) the new compact lightweight amps is to determine power per cubic inch of chassis and power per pound of amp. This can yield some intersting rankings.
 

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