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Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 6

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#921
KJung said:
Maybe Agedhorse can comment on this, but in all the years I've been using these class D/SMPS amps, I've noticed that they actually get hotter when idling. I notice this with my Markbass F500 and also the Acoustic Image heads I've had. Not sure why this is, or even if it is just a 'perception' versus reality in my case.

However, I had my F500 on all day the other day without really playing it, and by the end of the day, the fan (which I never notice at all.. whisper quiet) was spinning pretty hard and the unit was slightly warm to the touch (it stays ice cold when cranking on a gig all night at 4ohms).

I have not idled my Streamliner long enough to determine if this happens with that amp also.

Again, more of a musing than any sort of verified thing, but might be the cause of hearing the fan 'at home' after the unit has been on for a while.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of different topologies and power management techniques that are used in class D amps. Just talking in generalities, there are things that can be done like changing the PWM clock speed with respect to signal level (higher clock speed for smaller signals), that could be responsible for what you see. Another possible cause is thermal management of the output stage, depending on how the designer desides to handle the output stage's thermal dissipation with things like variable speed fans, average power integrating speed fan controllers, thermal anticipation fan modifier curves, fan speed tracking gain and how the low end of the fan thermal curve are handled in the design all play to the overall designer's strategy in the product. There's a lot of thought that goes into the smallest details with these kinds of products. To be successful under more extreme conditions, the designer must have enough experience out in the real world to anticipate and design for such conditions.
 
#922
agedhorse said:
There are a lot of different topologies and power management techniques that are used in class D amps. Just talking in generalities, there are things that can be done like changing the PWM clock speed with respect to signal level (higher clock speed for smaller signals), that could be responsible for what you see. Another possible cause is thermal management of the output stage, depending on how the designer desides to handle the output stage's thermal dissipation with things like variable speed fans, average power integrating speed fan controllers, thermal anticipation fan modifier curves, fan speed tracking gain and how the low end of the fan thermal curve are handled in the design all play to the overall designer's strategy in the product. There's a lot of thought that goes into the smallest details with these kinds of products. To be successful under more extreme conditions, the designer must have enough experience out in the real world to anticipate and design for such conditions.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I noticed this most on the Acoustic Image amps, that actually seemed to 'cool down' when pushed!
 
#924
alexofc69 said:
My band has been recording and my Streamliner 600 came in time. The whole album will be done with my SL600. I went direct to the board with the EQ pretty much set flat, Mids at 600 using my Squire Jazz Deluxe Active V. So far I am very happy with it and cant wait to use it live with my two Genz Benz NEOX 112T cabs.
Here is a sample
Click to expand...

That sounds great. Good track.
 
#926
alexofc69 said:
My band has been recording and my Streamliner 600 came in time. The whole album will be done with my SL600. I went direct to the board with the EQ pretty much set flat, Mids at 600 using my Squire Jazz Deluxe Active V. So far I am very happy with it and cant wait to use it live with my two Genz Benz NEOX 112T cabs.
Here is a sample
Link Removed
Click to expand...

I bet it will sound great with a pair of Neox112T.
I'm also thinking those cabs would sound good with a ShuttleMax 9.2.
 
#928
hasbeen said:
hmm...I think getting a Motown tone out of this head is pretty easy. These tone knobs are not afraid of being rolled all the way off or on. I need to get a campaign going encouraging people to really twist these things. It isn't like our Shuttle eq which is a click here and two clicks there.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, which is why I said it was doable on the SL. It's not the default voicing however. There seems to be a general consensus here that twisting the EQ of any amp more than a few clicks in any direction means that the head is not voiced for them. That's poor thinking in my view. Twist those knobs to the extremes if necessary to get the tone you want. I advised folks to do the same earlier in this mega thread who complained that the mids weren't there, and that the bass was too full. My last post was actually meant to let the person know that they could do it if they were willing to use the EQ section to their advantage and not be afraid to move beyond 11 or 1 o'clock on any given knob.

So to clarify my intent, the SL does Motown, to say the least, but you have to dial it in. No problem.
 
#930
Good skills, wateroftyne. Do you run the SL thru the Berg? I have one of those and was thinking it would pair nicely (along with something bigger underneath it, like a 15 or uberquad).
 
#931
wateroftyne said:
My Streamliner is about to embark on a stint of seventeen gigs in eight weeks. Four different bands, from acoustic to rockin', and any number of different types of venues. Can't wait!
Click to expand...

Cool.:cool:

I couldn't imagine a better amp for intense gigging use.

I think GBs are like the Toyota Landcruisers of the amp world. Solid enough to take to the ends of the earth and back.
 
#932
Eublet said:
I completely agree, which is why I said it was doable on the SL. It's not the default voicing however. There seems to be a general consensus here that twisting the EQ of any amp more than a few clicks in any direction means that the head is not voiced for them. That's poor thinking in my view. Twist those knobs to the extremes if necessary to get the tone you want. I advised folks to do the same earlier in this mega thread who complained that the mids weren't there, and that the bass was too full. My last post was actually meant to let the person know that they could do it if they were willing to use the EQ section to their advantage and not be afraid to move beyond 11 or 1 o'clock on any given knob.

So to clarify my intent, the SL does Motown, to say the least, but you have to dial it in. No problem.
Click to expand...

To clarify my own thoughts on the issue. My concern and others (not specific to the streamliner) is that if you have to for example boost the mids past 3 oclock or cut bass past 9 o'clock to find your tone generally or close to those extremes. You are then left with very little wiggle room when you find yourself in a room that needs adjustment. Mids become cut only and bass boost only.

We all do things the way we want so there is no need to prescribe to my thinking but personally starting out close to flat leaves me the most options when I need them. Add to that a head that doesn't allow you to choose the specific frequency or it's Q and knob twisting doesn't always get you where you want to be.

I generally agree, experiment, twist knobs and find your tone. But when you start to hit the extremes you have to start to think if it is really the right tool for the job.
 
#933
peterpalmieri said:
To clarify my own thoughts on the issue. My concern and others (not specific to the streamliner) is that if you have to for example boost the mids past 3 oclock or cut bass past 9 o'clock to find your tone generally or close to those extremes. You are then left with very little wiggle room when you find yourself in a room that needs adjustment. Mids become cut only and bass boost only.

We all do things the way we want so there is no need to prescribe to my thinking but personally starting out close to flat leaves me the most options when I need them. Add to that a head that doesn't allow you to choose the specific frequency or it's Q and knob twisting doesn't always get you where you want to be.

I generally agree, experiment, twist knobs and find your tone. But when you start to hit the extremes you have to start to think if it is really the right tool for the job.
Click to expand...
I agree with this myself. It's nice to have room to wiggle on both sides.
 
#934
Lovin this set up so far. Tonight it'll be with me on a gig and it'll be the backline for 2 other bands....will report back
IMG_3983.jpg
 
#937
Holdsg said:
Good skills, wateroftyne. Do you run the SL thru the Berg? I have one of those and was thinking it would pair nicely (along with something bigger underneath it, like a 15 or uberquad).
Click to expand...

Hello!

I do... one or two HS210s depending on the venue & PA.

One tends to suffice for most gigs these days. The SL makes one HS210 whump where it counts like no other amp I've owned...
 
#940
peterpalmieri said:
To clarify my own thoughts on the issue. My concern and others (not specific to the streamliner) is that if you have to for example boost the mids past 3 oclock or cut bass past 9 o'clock to find your tone generally or close to those extremes. You are then left with very little wiggle room when you find yourself in a room that needs adjustment. Mids become cut only and bass boost only.

We all do things the way we want so there is no need to prescribe to my thinking but personally starting out close to flat leaves me the most options when I need them. Add to that a head that doesn't allow you to choose the specific frequency or it's Q and knob twisting doesn't always get you where you want to be.

I generally agree, experiment, twist knobs and find your tone. But when you start to hit the extremes you have to start to think if it is really the right tool for the job.
Click to expand...

I agree - for you, not the right tool.

For me I run the Sreamliner set flat with my single coil P Basses and set with a little 2.5k boost with my 62reissue P Bass, set with a little bass cut with my upright and flat with my Fretless G&L and Tobis Basses.

Takes care of all my needs in spades.

Sounds like you need a 9.0 or 9.2.
 
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