Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 6

[steve_rolfeca]

...if you have to for example boost the mids past 3 oclock or cut bass past 9 o'clock to find your tone generally or close to those extremes. You are then left with very little wiggle room when you find yourself in a room that needs adjustment. Mids become cut only and bass boost only.

I generally agree, experiment, twist knobs and find your tone. But when you start to hit the extremes you have to start to think if it is really the right tool for the job.

I agree with you in principle, because I prefer it when amps are voiced so that they're flat with the controls at noon. I prefer to be able to see my EQ curve, just by glancing at the knobs. I even cared enough to write agedhorse, to see if the preshape could be changed.

However, the Streamliner is challenging my thinking, for three reasons:

1.) There is still a reasonable amount of bass cut available when the knob is at 9'oclock, and ditto for mid boost from 3 o'clock.
2.) It has only taken me a short while to get used to the idea that 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock are "the new noon".
3.) It sounds so damn good.

Besides, how often does anyone reduce the bass below flat on the gig? The only time I only ever cut the low end below noon on ANY amp, is because it has a pre-shape, and I'm trying to get it back to flat. Just like I do on the Streamliner. The same goes for boosting the mids. On most amps, I tend to run the mids higher than other people. But that's just because I like less mid scoop than the norm, not because I need 10 or 12 db of actual mid boost above flat.

Unless you've got a strangely-voiced bass or cabs, I can't really imagine needing more EQ range than the Streamliner offers, at least with electric bass. Unless it would be different with upright?

On the subject of maxing out the EQ to achive the tone that your looking for has not sounded very good with any other equipment I have done that with,it just sounds wierd or picks up hiss or static.

Once again, I totally agree in principle. Almost all amps have a huge amount of range on the tone controls, but in most cases only a small part of that range is actually useable. Big boosts and cuts tend to wreck the tone on other gear.

Except that once again, the Streamliner seems to break all the rules. I may not like every setting on this amp, but to my ear, they're all useable. No objectionable hiss when the treble is dimed, no weird wa-wa-pedal resonances when the mids are pushed...

More to the point, I would be willing to forgive it just about anything, given the fact that it hits my target tone without weighing a ton. I've been searching for that combination for decades.

 

[esoxhntr]

To clarify my own thoughts on the issue. My concern and others (not specific to the streamliner) is that if you have to for example boost the mids past 3 oclock or cut bass past 9 o'clock to find your tone generally or close to those extremes. You are then left with very little wiggle room when you find yourself in a room that needs adjustment. Mids become cut only and bass boost only.

We all do things the way we want so there is no need to prescribe to my thinking but personally starting out close to flat leaves me the most options when I need them. Add to that a head that doesn't allow you to choose the specific frequency or it's Q and knob twisting doesn't always get you where you want to be.

I generally agree, experiment, twist knobs and find your tone. But when you start to hit the extremes you have to start to think if it is really the right tool for the job.

Generally speaking, I would agree with you. In this case - and having used the Streamliner - I'm not so sure. If you take into account the lightweight nature of this amp, one would assume that it was built with smaller, lighter, and less bass heavy cabs of the 110 and 112 variety in mind. With those types of boxes, the controls can be used much closer to the centre position than on bigger cabs; at least that's how it works with my Berg HT112. With this particular head I am far more comfortable with the approach of being able to dial out excess than not being able to dial in what isn't quite there in the first place.

Other opinions may vary of course...

 

[Tmoney865]

Checked out the GB SL-900. (my abbreviations)

It was running through a Bergantino 2x10.

To be fair I should have run it through at least 1-2 12"ers, as that is what I am used to hearing for my liking.

Nevertheless...I did the noon thing on the tone controls and gave it some appreciable power at the Master Vol.

I played a Modulus6, Ken Smith Neck Thru 6, a KS BSR 6, and my personal BTB1206 Fretless.

I wish I had my NeoX400. (and I bought that thing just on specifications).

Perhaps it was the GB/Bergantino mixture. Perhaps it was the voicing of 10's v. 12's as I am used to. Perhaps the Bergantio is not made of Baltic Birch plywood (a MUST in my book after building cabinets with a Master).

Maybe it was the moon phase.

No joy. No Sale. Even though I wrote to Jeff G. back in 2009 regarding how I was using 2 12ax7's in my signal path, I did not find anything in this instance.

If my DigiTech BP-8 goes out I will just find another. If the NeoX400 goes I would aim for the Shuttle 9.2 or the GBE600. It might just be me as I am too modern, but I am sure a DBVer will find love with the Streamliner.

 

[dave_bass5]

I had two really nasty gigs this weekend.
The first was in a very, very live room. Tall ceiling, hard shiny wooden floor and we were in a corner, almost behind a door.
I think my 600 did ok. Nothing i did would make things sound good but i took on board some of the settings in this thread and dialled the lows back to about 3 o'clock and that helped a lot.
The second gig was on a small, hollow wooden stage. Although i used my Gramma pad (for both gigs) i found that keeping the lows at 3 o'clock again helped.
I've never dialled back the lows before on a amp (maybe i should have) but i can now see why you guys have been doing this. Even with my small 1212L the lows were a bit over powering.
Although these two gigs were not going to sound great with any amp IMO i do think my SA450 would have copped a bit better, as there was still a boomy element to the tone, and no amount of playing with the mids really got rid of it. I think the SA450's para mid control would have helped.

 

[peterpalmieri]

You don't mean 3 o'clock. Maybe 9?

 

[hasbeen]

I had two really nasty gigs this weekend.
The first was in a very, very live room. Tall ceiling, hard shiny wooden floor and we were in a corner, almost behind a door.
I think my 600 did ok. Nothing i did would make things sound good but i took on board some of the settings in this thread and dialled the lows back to about 3 o'clock and that helped a lot.
The second gig was on a small, hollow wooden stage. Although i used my Gramma pad (for both gigs) i found that keeping the lows at 3 o'clock again helped.
I've never dialled back the lows before on a amp (maybe i should have) but i can now see why you guys have been doing this. Even with my small 1212L the lows were a bit over powering.
Although these two gigs were not going to sound great with any amp IMO i do think my SA450 would have copped a bit better, as there was still a boomy element to the tone, and no amount of playing with the mids really got rid of it. I think the SA450's para mid control would have helped.

I think you meant 9:00 o clock. FWIW though, why didn't you roll the bass off? Also, just as important, where were your mids?

 

[dave_bass5]

I think you meant 9:00 o clock. FWIW though, why didn't you roll the bass off? Also, just as important, where were your mids?

Ooops, yes, i meant 9 o'clock, for both gigs. So i was rolling the bass off and it helped a lot.

Sorry for the confusion.

The mids were all over the place during sound check but i settled on a slight cut (11 o'clock) at the lowest freq setting, this seemed to work well.

The EQ does seem very powerful. Its to to be able to move the knobs a small amount and hear a difference.

 

[dubstylee]

Did you have nice headroom with your SL 600?

 

[DigthemLows]

Did you have nice headroom with your SL 600?

I do, lots of it!!. I know someone who has a 900 and 600 and said you can't tell the difference.

 

[dave_bass5]

Did you have nice headroom with your SL 600?

Its hard to say. I had the Gain on 11 o'clock, gain button in, Pre level on around 2 o'clock and the master around 11 o'clock.
I was loud enough but due to me backing the lows and mids of if had to up the master more than i would normally.
It really was a nightmare weekend acousticlly though, but it showed just how versatile the Eq is, even though it looks pretty basic.

For what its worth im playing in a band with just one guitar going through a Fender twin combo and a un mic'ed drummer. The singer plays guitar but its always just in the background and i wouldn't count it towards our overall level. Its more a comfort thing for him.
I should also add that im using a radio system. The output of that is set to very slightly under max.

I cant see me ever not being loud enough but im not sure how loud the amp goes as ive never really tested it out. I am used to my MB heads not getting any louder over 12 o'clock, but i believe the GB behaves differently (i could be wrong though).

 

[dubstylee]

I hear what you're saying, I sold my LMIII for the SL 600. I definately like the tone of the GB a lot more b/c it sounds more like my tube amps for sure. I have plenty of headroom, I was just curious of others experience as well.

I keep the gain around 1-2 o'clock and have the pre-amp matching. Master gets up to around 12-1 o'clock for the volume I need. I use sealed cabs (210AV or V4-4x12) with a P bass, sounds totally killer.

 

[dave_bass5]

I think 1 o'clock would be the most ill ever need to go to.
Im still adjusting to the "new" tone, so far im still 50/50 but one thing i have noticed is that in the gig recordings we have done the bass sits a bit nicer in the mix, even though its not quite 100% my tone yet.
Im finding i can be a bit quieter without loosing the higher notes in the mix, and the punch is really helping me play what ive always wanted to but couldn't due to the notes sometimes getting lost.
I hope im not over playing but im certainly playing a lot of song slightly differently now, and with more confidence.

The other difference this weekend was i had the Chromes on my P. I think ill go back to rounds for the next gig. The Chromes were nice but i felt(as i always eventually do) i needed more overtones and a bit more of an open sound.

 

[hasbeen]

I am used to my MB heads not getting any louder over 12 o'clock, but i believe the GB behaves differently (i could be wrong though).

correct. Our tapers are so that the volume comes on very gradually throughout the rotation of the pot.

 

[woody357]

When playing threw a tub amp or hearing someone play using one, I find that I can feel the bass, not just hear it even at low volume. I have never felt this with a SS amp. My questions is geared for those who know what I am talking about and have tried one of the Streamliner amps. Does this amp give you some of that feel?

 

[Red Planet]

When playing threw a tub amp or hearing someone play using one, I find that I can feel the bass, not just hear it even at low volume. I have never felt this with a SS amp. My questions is geared for those who know what I am talking about and have tried one of the Streamliner amps. Does this amp give you some of that feel?

Yes it's there.

The crazy thing is how much like a tube amp the Streamliner is. It's more like a tube amp/feel, tone, warm round, than a Tube amp.

 

[woody357]

Yes it's there.

The crazy thing is how much like a tube amp the Streamliner is. It's more like a tube amp/feel, tone, warm round, than a Tube amp.

Thanks for that info Red, I guess I'll be ordering one next month!!!

 

[seansbrew]

I'm am starting to find good a good voicing for each bass that I play.

I am now pushing this mids allot more than I did when I first got the amp. At the minimum I keep the mids between 3:00 and 4:00. 2.5 hz with my Zon and 600 hz with my passive Jazz.

As others are experiencing, I am not use to this sound. It is a good sound that allows you to be heard in the mix and is pleasant as a monitor. Both worlds in one.
I am so used to the SWR/SVT4/Eden sound. Thats all I have used for years. I would say that I have always struggled to balance a good sound that wouldn't get lost in the mix.

So far I am loving my 900/212xtneo setup.

 

[woody357]

I'm am starting to find good a good voicing for each bass that I play.

I am now pushing this mids allot more than I did when I first got the amp. At the minimum I keep the mids between 3:00 and 4:00. 2.5 hz with my Zon and 600 hz with my passive Jazz.

As others are experiencing, I am not use to this sound. It is a good sound that allows you to be heard in the mix and is pleasant as a monitor. Both worlds in one.
I am so used to the SWR/SVT4/Eden sound. Thats all I have used for years. I would say that I have always struggled to balance a good sound that wouldn't get lost in the mix.

So far I am loving my 900/212xtneo setup.

Sean how would you compare the sound of the SL900 to your Eden?

 

[seansbrew]

Sean how would you compare the sound of the SL900 to your Eden?

The Eden is a little more focused/surgical when it comes to adding or subtracting frequencies. You can find a nice balance if you spend a little time with it. The lows always had to be tailored to find a nice round sound. And I did find a nice sound with it, by far the best pre I have ever owned. I always described it as richer than SWR and sharper than Ampeg.

The STL is softer and gives much more of a rounded sound right out of the gate. The tone network seems much more tightly knit than that of the EDen. Each turn of a dial seems to tug on the others. One thing I find interesting is that one can easily be fooled by the few dials that are on the STL. It is every bit as sophisticated as the Eden.

Someone on here used the description "pillowy." I must agree.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

First loud gig with the Streamliner this morning. Stage monitor only, not carrying the house, hard-hitting drummer, standing next to the PA sub.

It was a thing of beauty. I found the same sense of being distinct in the mix without overpowering it, that I heard under quieter circumstances. I had to run the mids and highs a little higher than needed when playing solo in our rehearsal space, but there was no harshness, even with quite a bright tone.

Although my cabinets are only rated for 500 watts total, I'm starting to wonder if I really need higher power bins for my application, given that I rarely play venues where I need to carry the house.

I had LOTS of headroom left, but the real surprise was how well my cabs competed with the surrounding stage volume. I was able to run my levels much hotter than I would have imagined, without audible distress.

I suspect that this has at least something to do with the 3DPM circuit. At high volume, the attack envelope is more rounded than a typical PA amp of the same wattage class. It's like using a compressor with a highly reactive, musical feel.