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Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

#461
Well the tube rolling got old quick, and expensive trying to locate and purchase the RCA 7025, tubes - there was some issues with the 1960 RCA 7025 tube I bought, I guess you take your chances on buying used tubes, ended up just using 3 new tube works 7025 I had and it sounded better than it was before that I had listed earlier, the 5751 just did not do it for me, my 2 cents
 
#462
Just took delivery of a STL-900 and was reading through this thread. I have a bunch on NOS tubes but none are 5751s.

I see from my searches that I can get them for around $20, but the JAN Philips 5751 that everyone is Raving about is $65.

Can I expect similar results with a $20 5751, or bite the bullet and get the JAN Philips for $65?

My main gigging amps are a SM 9.2 and a Fender Super Bassman. I got the STL-900 for an in between of the 2 amps above.

I play in a Foo Fighter tribute band, 1-2 times a month, with either a TecAmp M210, GB Uber 410-T, or Avatar B212, depending on the gig.

I also sometimes gig my Ashdown Little Bastard a few times a year also. Just to give you an idea of what tones I like.
 
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#463
IME, most players preferred the factory stock tubes when they didn't know what was in there (ie. double-blind testing). Only when they went down the road of rolling their own did they "prefer" their choices, in large part I suspect due to confirmation bias)

The factory tubes were selected for the combination of tone, low microphonics, low noise and long term reliability.

The challenges of NOS tubes with regard to microphonics, noise and reliability is a well documented one, as well as outright counterfeit parts that masquerade as NOS vintage parts. Buyer beware.
 
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#464
I put a Jan Phillips 5751 in my Streamliner 900 and replaced it with the stock tube right away.
For the Streamliner 900, I think investing in a HPF is a better "investment" than tube rolling.
I think the stock Streamliner 900 is one of the best amps - ever - period - end of story!
Almost every time I go trying something else, I go back to my STL.
 
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#465
BassPilot said:
I put a Jan Phillips 5751 in my Streamliner 900 and replaced it with the stock tube right away.
For the Streamliner 900, I think investing in a HPF is a better "investment" than tube rolling.
I think the stock Streamliner 900 is one of the best amps - ever - period - end of story!
Almost every time I go trying something else, I go back to my STL.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the HPF thing last night while I was gigging my STL-900.
I believe the STL has a HPF built in. I wonder where it's set? 30hz maybe? Lower maybe?

Question for STL / HPF users,,, where are you setting your external HPFs at?
 
#466
BassPilot said:
I put a Jan Phillips 5751 in my Streamliner 900 and replaced it with the stock tube right away.
For the Streamliner 900, I think investing in a HPF is a better "investment" than tube rolling.
I think the stock Streamliner 900 is one of the best amps - ever - period - end of story!
Almost every time I go trying something else, I go back to my STL.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree, I found using my Thumpinator helps out, and that amp pushes, need a good cab, went from two 2x10 to GK 2x12 Neo with a 4x10 Neo and now its sit on a GK neo 4x12, that STL 900 IS A BEAST !
 
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#468
agedhorse said:
IME, most players preferred the factory stock tubes when they didn't know what was in there (ie. double-blind testing). Only when they went down the road of rolling their own did they "prefer" their choices, in large part I suspect due to confirmation bias)

The factory tubes were selected for the combination of tone, low microphonics, low noise and long term reliability.

The challenges of NOS tubes with regard to microphonics, noise and reliability is a well documented one, as well as outright counterfeit parts that masquerade as NOS vintage parts. Buyer beware.
Click to expand...
Mine has a Sovtek 12AX7A-LPS in V1, and what look to be the stock Ruby’s in V2 and V3. I bought it used so that is what was given to me.

Edit:All my NOS tubes were from a friend of mine who’s father passed (Amp Builder) so I bought about a dozen of them and have been gigging with NOS RCAs in my Ashdown LB-30 with good results.
 
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#469
BassPilot said:
I put a Jan Phillips 5751 in my Streamliner 900 and replaced it with the stock tube right away.
For the Streamliner 900, I think investing in a HPF is a better "investment" than tube rolling.
I think the stock Streamliner 900 is one of the best amps - ever - period - end of story!
Almost every time I go trying something else, I go back to my STL.
Click to expand...
I have a fDeck 3 on my board that I use at every gig that I bring my board to, which is about 80% of my gigs with 100% FOH support. My amps are for monitoring on stage and sending a signal to FOH.
 
#470
hennessybass said:
I was thinking about the HPF thing last night while I was gigging my STL-900.
I believe the STL has a HPF built in. I wonder where it's set? 30hz maybe? Lower maybe?

Question for STL / HPF users,,, where are you setting your external HPFs at?
Click to expand...
I will be figuring this out soon as I have 3 gigs coming up these next two weeks. But with my other amps I usually keep my fDeck at around 80Hz roll off.

YMMV
 
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#471
BassPilot said:
I put mine between my bass and amp and don't use any other effects.
I have the Broughton HPF/LPF and, as accurately as I can estimate, I set it around 43 hz (between 40 and 45). This cleans up the low end enough to let the cabinet work as desired.
Click to expand...
I have my fDeck in a Lehle D-Loop and run it through the front of my amps. Nice option to have the Lehle as a high end Buffer/Bypass for all my pedals.

I haven’t tried it yet with my STL, but with my other amps I am around the 80Hz point.
 
#472
BassPilot said:
I put a Jan Phillips 5751 in my Streamliner 900 and replaced it with the stock tube right away.
For the Streamliner 900, I think investing in a HPF is a better "investment" than tube rolling.
I think the stock Streamliner 900 is one of the best amps - ever - period - end of story!
Almost every time I go trying something else, I go back to my STL.
Click to expand...

I would also suggest that practicing and lessons on technique might have more impact on tone.

hennessybass said:
I was thinking about the HPF thing last night while I was gigging my STL-900.
I believe the STL has a HPF built in. I wonder where it's set? 30hz maybe? Lower maybe?

Question for STL / HPF users,,, where are you setting your external HPFs at?
Click to expand...

Good question. there is a HPF at around 30hz, but the Streamliner was designed intentionally as a voiced amp that went after a very specific tone profile. I regret (in a way) that there wasn't the incentive to include a variable HPF in this amp, as it probably would have a lot of value to the average player. That said, the market wasn't ready for a variable HPF at that time IMO.

FronTowardEnemy said:
Mine has a Sovtek 12AX7A-LPS in V1, and what look to be the stock Ruby’s in V2 and V3. I bought it used so that is what was given to me.

Edit:All my NOS tubes were from a friend of mine who’s father passed (Amp Builder) so I bought about a dozen of them and have been gigging with NOS RCAs in my Ashdown LB-30 with good results.
Click to expand...

V1 should have a JJ ECC83, V2 and V2 should have Ruby 12AX7AC5's as shipped from the factory. I see amps in for service and after 10 years the amps still have ~80-90% of their useful life remaining.
 
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#473
agedhorse said:
Good question. there is a HPF at around 30hz, but the Streamliner was designed intentionally as a voiced amp that went after a very specific tone profile. I regret (in a way) that there wasn't the incentive to include a variable HPF in this amp, as it probably would have a lot of value to the average player. That said, the market wasn't ready for a variable HPF at that time IMO.
Click to expand...

Nice. I like the voice - the amp has a great feel to it. Either way, it's a great amp and I've really been enjoying it.

I will say that I remember when the STL came out (I got a 600 at the time), and I don't remember much (if any) chatter at the time about HPFs. At least here on TB. Now days, it seems like a HPF gets mentioned in ever single thread, almost regardless of topic.
 
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#474
FronTowardEnemy said:
Mine has a Sovtek 12AX7A-LPS in V1, and what look to be the stock Ruby’s in V2 and V3. I bought it used so that is what was given to me.
Click to expand...



The Sovtek 12AX7LPS is nice sounding tube with strong bass, but I found the lows were loose and woolly in the amps I tried it in. The mids and highs of the current production Mullard ECC83 are similar to the Sovtek, but I found the lows are much more focused. The mids and highs of the current production Mullard CV4004 are also fairly similar, but the low end is much leaner. All three of these tubes tend to have sort of soft compressed high mids, but plenty of air.

I have come across JJ ECC83S in several of my bass amps, and so far they always come out when I get around to rolling tubes. To my ears they have very narrow frequency response and always sound like they are on the edge up breaking up. No high or lows and they have sort of a gritty quality.

I far prefer the JJ ECC803S, but this is a long plate tube so it may not be the best choice for V1 as they sometimes are a bit microphonic in the front end of the preamp. A lot of my bass amps have Mullard ECC83 in V1 and JJ ECC803S pretty much everywhere else. This is a good combination if your are looking for more of a tight, focused, and articulate (HiFi) sound with minimal gank in the high mids.

I haven't rolled tubes in a Streamliner and it's possible the JJ ECC83S and Ruby 12AX7AC5 could be the perfect tubes for that amp. However based on the frequent concern that it's a little too woolly, I think I would probably prefer my Mullard ECC83, JJ ECC803S combination. YMMV.
 
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#476
agedhorse said:
The JJ ECC83 is not woolly in the Streamliner.
Click to expand...

I can't argue that since I haven't rolled tubes in the Streamliner.

Getting more controlled lows does seem to be a goal some people are trying to achieve when they roll tubes in the Streamliner. I would expect the Sovtek 12AX7LPS to be a step in the wrong direction, but you never know until you try it.

My observation is tube rolling tends to make very subtle changes at best. But sometimes even a subtle change can have a significant impact on whether one likes an amp or not. Since the Streamliner does respond to tube rolling, I think it can potentially be worth the effort, but there is no guarantee that a different tube will make the amp more desirable. So tube rolling might be a waste of time and money. People should keep this in mind when they consider dropping big bucks on vintage tubes.

I roll tubes for the fun of it, and sometimes the original tubes go back in the amp when I am done.
 

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