Genz Streamliner 900 and TC RH450 Comparison

[LilRay]

And, yeah, Jeff Genzler just told me that he personally played that second head 5 different times before it shipped. No doubt it worked when it left AZ, but the gods of shipping were angry for whatever reason...

Guys I'm no expert at anything, but could the weather differences from AZ to MI simply have been the culprit?

I'd imagine this; Arizona very dry and fairly warm. MI should be polar opposite.

Not to mention that it snowed in Dallas, a sort of a freak occurrence. I just got my cell phone replaced and an overnight delivery sat in Ft. Worth for 4 days.

Could the warmer AZ temps followed by a massive and fairly quick temp/humidity change be all that caused both heads to not perform perfectly?

That'd be my suspicion.



God Bless, Ray

 

[boing]

Once upon a time, the gear you bought only had to make it to the local retailer, and you (or they) played it before buying, to weed out faulty units after the shippers had their last way with the thing. Now the internet is king, and extra shipping risks are a necessary evil. I'd guess the failure rate at the consumer end is higher just for that reason.

We've all seen the videos on youtube of package sorters abusing other people's property out laziness or malice. Those are the gentle guys...

Subscribed for the autopsy report.

 

[rok51]

Genz rocks. Andy (Agedhorse) already contacted me and we did a test. The amp works with the bass plugged into the effects return, which means it is just a tube that probably got damaged in shipping.

Called Genz and talked to Jeff... and even though I'm sure just replacing a tube would have taken care of it, they are shipping a new amp to me for Saturday delivery, just so they can check out the unit.

Really top notch (as many know already).

Great amp, and my guess is, other than the typical tube going to hell in shipping, these will be solid as a rock.

Funny how you can be more pleased with a company that fixes a minor problem quickly than if nothing had even gone wrong.

Look for couple J Bass clips later this weekend.

There is no way that I can express my gratitude to the staff at Genz-Benz. Their standard of customer service and the quality of the product that they offer has made me a total convert. I am small potatoes in the overall scheme of things...yet, I am treated with the respect and care of a major headliner (which I will never be). I have ordered my STL 900 this afternoon...and I will be totally G-B in the amplification.

Kim

 

[jnewmark]

Guys I'm no expert at anything, but could the weather differences from AZ to MI simply have been the culprit?

I'd imagine this; Arizona very dry and fairly warm. MI should be polar opposite.

Not to mention that it snowed in Dallas, a sort of a freak occurrence. I just got my cell phone replaced and an overnight delivery sat in Ft. Worth for 4 days.

Could the warmer AZ temps followed by a massive and fairly quick temp/humidity change be all that caused both heads to not perform perfectly?

That'd be my suspicion.



God Bless, Ray

I guess anything is possible, but the second head was shipped overnight, so it probably spent more time on an airplane than anything else. I have had tube pre bass amps shipped to me all the way from California in winter with no problems. Maybe it's just plain bad luck, but I doubt it.

 

[LilRay]

I guess anything is possible, but the second head was shipped overnight, so it probably spent more time on an airplane than anything else. I have had tube pre bass amps shipped to me all the way from California in winter with no problems. Maybe it's just plain bad luck, but I doubt it.

If I'm not mistaken tubes are much like light bulbs in that one little drastic change can affect them internally. And it seems the second head being shipped overnight would accelerate the changes even faster.

But all it takes is one crummy shipping terminal in the chain to cause enough damage to break something as fragile as a tube.

Both Roger and Andy know Ken's position here on TalkBass. They're both fully aware of his intricate involvement in the Amps forum alone. I have no doubt whatsoever that Genz Benz knew for an absolute certainty that the head that Ken received overnight was in perfect running order when it left Arizona. For them not to have made sure of that would have been an oversite on their part, but they are NOT laxed in any form or fashion when it comes to Customer Service. At least in any instance I've ever read.



God Bless, Ray

 

[kesslari]

I guess anything is possible, but the second head was shipped overnight, so it probably spent more time on an airplane than anything else. I have had tube pre bass amps shipped to me all the way from California in winter with no problems. Maybe it's just plain bad luck, but I doubt it.

OTOH, my SL (and several others) have arrived in perfect running condition, done gigs, etc. So "bad luck" as far as 2 problem amp/tube/components/whatever coming to the same cat, with others arriving fine - I'd say yes, that's bad luck.

 

[Vic]

If I'm not mistaken tubes are much like light bulbs in that one little drastic change can affect them internally. And it seems the second head being shipped overnight would accelerate the changes even faster.

Nah, not enough to make that kind of difference. Corrugated cardboard is actually a very good thermal insulator, so the amp would not really be shocked like that... it would cool down at a pretty safe rate. Besides, I have a feeling Ken woulda' let it warm up a bit before turning it on. He's lived in MI for quite some time.

Again... I'm not really sold on the tube thing here, but maybe GB will reveal the real story and settle all this guessing.

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

OTOH, my SL (and several others) have arrived in perfect running condition, done gigs, etc. So "bad luck" as far as 2 problem amp/tube/components/whatever coming to the same cat, with others arriving fine - I'd say yes, that's bad luck.

+1 Mine came in two-day air to Buffalo and worked perfectly right out of the box. It is a shame that Ken had such bad luck. And of course you are correct in that the guys at GB would not have shipped Ken a second unit that they were not convinced was working properly. To think otherwise would be absurd. These units are "burned in" for days before shipping. Just go back to one of the earlier parts of this thread to see the pics of the units with signal generators attached to the inputs pumping a no doubt wide range of bass signals into these units and monitoring their outputs for failures.

Ken is one of those guys on the board here that someone like GB would bend over backwards to please (they bend over backwards to please all of us, but a guy like Ken, perhaps even more so). Ken has earned that too, btw, because he has a great vocabulary with which to articulate what he hears, and he always has a great understanding of the design goals of the products he reviews.

It is unfortunate that not one but two units failed for Ken. While I can kind of understand some peoples' frustration with Ken's position (I find it somewhat draconian myself), I think he is entitled to it. I have had enough experience with tube pre-amps to know that occasionally tubes fail, even if burn-in tested prior to shipping. You just have to have a few in reserve just-in-case. Moreover, I have enough experience with UPS and FEd-Ex to know that they are far rougher on our stuff then we are.

I would be very surprised if this problem is anything more than a couple of tubes, either damaged in transit or simply failing just outside of the burn-in period. There will always be a few that do.

 

[acedabone]

I might be in the minority here, or it's just been a long time since I've commented on anything but after hearing the tone of the SL900 by Mr. Whisperer... I, personally would send it back 20 times to get that bad boy in my hands! Now... To figure out where to get the money! Anyone interested in a 12yr old pre-teen? Mine's giving me fits tonight!!! lol

 

[faulknersj]

Jumped in today and ordered a Streamliner 600 today from Ye Old Music Shoppe in S.C.. The 600 watts I get from my my Shuttlemax 6.0 is more than enough for me and my funk, soul, R&B, motown outfit thru a genz Benz Neox 212t, or my Avatar TB 153. No distorted Guitar compete with in da funk!! I will be posting vids from gig situations just like I did for the Avatar TB 153 on You Tube.
__________________

 

[acedabone]

Jumped in today and ordered a Streamliner 600 today from Ye Old Music Shoppe in S.C.. The 600 watts I get from my my Shuttlemax 6.0 is more than enough for me and my funk, soul, R&B, motown outfit thru a genz Benz Neox 212t, or my Avatar TB 153. No distorted Guitar compete with in da funk!! I will be posting vids from gig situations just like I did for the Avatar TB 153 on You Tube.
__________________

Very cool! Can't wait!

 

[LilRay]

Nah, not enough to make that kind of difference. Corrugated cardboard is actually a very good thermal insulator, so the amp would not really be shocked like that... it would cool down at a pretty safe rate. Besides, I have a feeling Ken woulda' let it warm up a bit before turning it on. He's lived in MI for quite some time.

Again... I'm not really sold on the tube thing here, but maybe GB will reveal the real story and settle all this guessing.

Your probably right Vic, and I am just guessing. But I have to believe Genz didn't ship out malfunctioning product after someone had an issue. They would've made darn sure what was sent was perfect. If for nothing but to save themselves the hassle of rumor on an internet forum.

I'd avoid negative comments on a new product like the plague myself, if I had to overnight 400 units.



God Bless, Ray

 

[Red Planet]

That has not been my experience, I used to use on half of a PLX2402 for my loud rigs and went to a Shuttle 9.0, the wattage does not feel the same to me. I dig the Genz Benz though, and have a Streamliner 900 on the way.

Ah but did you measure them with a Tone Generator and a Scope?

 

[Red Planet]

Nope, but svtb15 already responded that the sockets are super tight, so it shouldn't be an issue.

The sockets are as good as any but no tighter than usual. I have had the amp apart and given enough of an impact a tube could come loose.

Imagine a conveyor belt that winds around a large warehouse and happens to be a good height from the floor. The conveyors are designed to keep the boxes on them but every now and then stuff happens and they take a fall. And then there are the goons at the terminals that work nights loading trucks. Sometimes I think they use the packages for footballs etc.......

One of my many duty's is purchasing and I have one location in specific that I can not use FedEx or the package will be damaged guaranteed. No problems elsewhere but every time no matter where/who it is coming from there will be damage. The more I complain the more damage gets done.

 

[svtb15]

I must say that in my streamliner. .The tubes are really steadfast in the sockets.. i didnt do this but if i were to flick my finger at a tube in its socket ( you know the way that you would flick someones ear from behind when you were a kid to wind them up, or to flick a bugger away. ) well if i did that hard i would hurt my finger and not unseat the tube..
Now
could they come unseated . IMO yes, especially in the instance that RP stated..
A drop form 5 or 6 feet creates alot of G force on that sudden stop on a concrete floor..

 

[MikeBass]

I must say that in my streamliner. .The tubes are really steadfast in the sockets.. i didnt do this but if i were to flick my finger at a tube in its socket ( you know the way that you would flick someones ear from behind when you were a kid to wind them up, or to flick a bugger away. ) well if i did that hard i would hurt my finger and not unseat the tube..
Now
could they come unseated . IMO yes, especially in the instance that RP stated..
A drop form 5 or 6 feet creates alot of G force on that sudden stop on a concrete floor..

Yeah it's not the fall that kills amps. It that sudden stop....

 

[Vic]

The sockets are as good as any but no tighter than usual. I have had the amp apart and given enough of an impact a tube could come loose.

Well, I didn't mean to suggest they were unusually tight, but rather typically tight as in any high quality socket. I have actually seen some cheap sockets that don't hold well, so I think we can probably safely say that, while they aren't invulnerable, at least they aren't particularly susceptible, either. That was really my point.

Imagine a conveyor belt...

Yeah, I know, and given that scenario, sure. I actually worked on the loading floor for UPS at a major hub in Indy for a year when I was going to gearhead school in a previous life, so I know that stuff can happen, but believe it or not, the kind of abuse it'd take to knock a tube loose from a good quality socket is just not the norm, despite how much we all love to complain about the popular transport companies out there, so the odds are still very much against a 2/2 failure trying to get Ken an amp.

Again tho, I'll admit, none of us, including myself, know any facts here. GB will have to step up and say what the problem was if they choose to do so. If they get the amp back and all they have to do is re-seat the tubes, well, then I'm wrong, and Ken just had (truly) massively bad luck.

 

[Hizzoner]

Got mine today FINALLY and the box looked intact..no compression or major scuffs noticed..and she works VERY well. Did let the amp acclimate to room temp a couple of hours to be safe..it has been from AZ to VA and to IL now so pretty extreme..plus in cold UPS warehouse since Thursday..anyhoo..

I only played it a short time and primarily through the headphones as the little ones are sleeping...sounds really wonderful..I could really hear the "3-d" thing going on..esp through headphones....almost sounded as if a fundamental deep chest beating note was there for each note you play, regardless of how hard or soft. I played a bit with the gain up and got some nasty mean OD stuff which is not really my thing. Kept the gain button engaged and turned the gain down just shy of noon and it got plenty "chewy" ..a fat sweet spot which I love...I can see tonal similarities to a walkabout for sure but this SL has more heft in each note...the mid controls are nice for adding more punch or high mid clarity if you choose.

It sounded great with a '76 P with chromes, a Geddy jazz with lo riders, and a MM Stingray 4 classic also lo riders..very impressed to start..

Also notable was the complete absence of fan noise(an issue on other amps I ahve owned/tried)..dead quiet...cant wait to crank it up tomorrow with some serious volume. Aesthetically the blue lights are subdued relative to the shuttle max..pretty when the lights are low IMO

I may pick up some tubes for saftety's sake and eventually try a Telefunken or Tung Sol. Adios and thanks to GB guys...great stuff.

Thanks

Mark


PS..are GB coming out with some cool streamliner tshirts? kind of a 50's style "rt 66" design would be cool..kinda retro like scotty cameron putters

 

[MikeBass]

Even if Ken dropped them himself from shoulder height, it would only be a 4 foot fall......

 

[rodl2005]

I just don't like the sound of it at all. Sure the amp- & as I've stated- I hope it to be a beauty as a lotta GB stuff is- might be sounding good. 2 outta 2 aint good.

I've got "new" tubes in my '91 SVTII & in my YBA200 & in my Mesa WAlkabout & they've been knocked about- the SVT dropped off the top of an SVT810 to the stage, the WA has been swapped in & outta it's combo MANY times with NOT ONE prob from any of these amps......

I hope this gets sorted.