Genz Streamliner 900 and TC RH450 Comparison

[hasbeen]

Having as much experience as I do with tube amps and current production 12AX7s, as well as knowing your quality of design at product launch, I would buy a SL900 today without hesitation. Once you have three solid tubes in place, I would expect failure free performance over the lifespan of amp.

Now I just need to free up some cash for a purchase!

thanks Kindness...and long time no hear by the way. Yes...RoHS compliance has changed tubes a bit. That is one reason why we reserve the right to change these up in our specs. Fortunately, our supplier is pretty good about catching bad batches and is great about alerting us when we need to change.

 

[Gab124]

please know that one way we're able to ship product once it is "released" is because we've had people gigging with production pieces in the field for quite some time.

This is why our amps don't go thermal and why we don't have to go through multiple revisions.

I understand that you're suspect (I'm embarrassed as well). We are very confident it is the tubes. Many of us know the saying "if there is a problem with a tube amp, it is most likely the tubes". We feel this is the case with these amps. Most notably because a bad tube tends to go POP very quickly.

Either way, we will openly disclose what the issue is when we get it back.

PS- if anyone here receives an amp with an issue, I'll be happy to send them some additional tubes gratis to swap out. We use the most reliable tube supplier we can find, but I offer this to offset concern.

Nice to know this. I was already trying to find a source for tubes to have on hand as I am still really excited about this product and wanted to be prepared for tube failure initially or years down the road. I also feel confident that if it is another flaw in the amp that all units would get a recall and upgraded. I agree with others that customer service is a big part of purchases. Now if mine could just get here!

 

[Kindness]

thanks Kindness...and long time no hear by the way. Yes...RoHS compliance has changed tubes a bit. That is one reason why we reserve the right to change these up in our specs. Fortunately, our supplier is pretty good about catching bad batches and is great about alerting us when we need to change.

There are always going to be stray bad tubes. I've had a unnatural number of JJs blow up within the first few minutes of actual use, despite their earned reputation for building a reliable new production preamp tube.

I feel bad for you (GB) having such a "high profile" failure (I've been watching these Streamliner threads like a hawk due to my interest in the product), and I absolutely understand why Ken would go by his personal two strikes rule, but it isn't going to stop me from buying.

 

[svtb15]

I gigged my SL900 yesterday on a soundcheck for todays gig.. and gigging it tonight.. It was flawless.. everyone loved it too..

I feel very confident with my amp...

And UPS delivered it with a hole in the bottom of the box as Kens.. I know it did not ship like that.. I wonder what UPS does at times...
But mine is kicking tail through the 1288 Uber Quads..

 

[12bass]

From what I gather, the chance of tube failure is probably orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the components, especially if the device is subject to high g-forces in shipping. Also, early "infant mortality" failure is not uncommon, so I would tend to look to the tubes first, replace them if necessary, then see how things go from there....

 

[Kindness]

early "infant mortality" failure is not uncommon

Exactly.

 

[JxBass]

My Shuttle 9 arrived with a tube issue. Jeff sent me new tube asap and no problems since. If my SL900 has initial tube issues I'll go the tube replacement route over a new amp, based on my past experience.

 

[Hizzoner]

not to derail but I'm frustrated with UPS as I am currently waiting for my SL 900 from Greg at Rocketmusic..he shipped on Monday and has been GREAT to deal with BTW. My SL is in the UPS warehouse 30 mins away..due to inclement weather they were unable to deliver it to me on Weds(the day it WAS to be delivered), thursday..diggin out.. this I completely understand...can't control blizzards..

BUT..fedex delivered a shuttlemax 12 to me on Friday despite the conditions..both heads shipped same day from the mid south to me in Chicago.. and UPS is not open on Saturdays..GRRRRRRRRRRR

Now I have to wait 'til Monday and hope the delivery is undamaged and that the tubes are good...patience..patience....

 

[GrowlerBox]

In a potentially futile (given Ken's untimely and unfortunate departure from the scene) attempt to bring this thread back to its original purpose, is there anyone else with experience of both these heads with a different range of basses/styles/cabinets who would like to offer their opinions?

 

[svtb15]

UPS did the same thing to me.. took a week to get an overnight box.. darn UPS .. ....I know they toss those boxes through the air.. a buddy of mine used to work for them..my SL900 had a hole in the box. but the amp was unaffected... and working perfectly...

not to derail but I'm frustrated with UPS as I am currently waiting for my SL 900 from Greg at Rocketmusic..he shipped on Monday and has been GREAT to deal with BTW. My SL is in the UPS warehouse 30 mins away..due to inclement weather they were unable to deliver it to me on Weds(the day it WAS to be delivered), thursday..diggin out.. this I completely understand...can't control blizzards..

BUT..fedex delivered a shuttlemax 12 to me on Friday despite the conditions..both heads shipped same day from the mid south to me in Chicago.. and UPS is not open on Saturdays..GRRRRRRRRRRR

Now I have to wait 'til Monday and hope the delivery is undamaged and that the tubes are good...patience..patience....

 

[RocketMusic]

In a potentially futile (given Ken's untimely and unfortunate departure from the scene) attempt to bring this thread back to its original purpose, is there anyone else with experience of both these heads with a different range of basses/styles/cabinets who would like to offer their opinions?

I've played around with the Streamliner with several different basses (G&L, Warwick, Roscoe, Suhr). The amp sounds very impressive with all of them. My short summary of the head is "wow".

My slightly longer version is that it sounds as close to my own old-school rig (an Alembic F1 preamp into a Crest CA9 power amp) as any of the lightweight heads that I've heard (Genz Benz, TC, MarkBass). The Streamliner is the only one that sounds like it has a 50lb hunk of iron in the power supply. It takes the bass tone and wraps it in warm, round, buttery goodness. The low end is big, round and smooth.

Can you tell I'm a big fan?

I'm obviously disappointed with Ken's experience with this head, but my hat is certainly off to Genz-Benz for doing their usual excellent job at customer service. It's a pity Ken's rule is 2-strikes instead of 3-strikes. Given the sort of gigs he plays (high dollar, no room for error), though, I get it.

I recently did a quick recording session with the head. The signal chain was:

G&L L-2000 -> Streamliner 900 -> UBER Quad Cab -> MXL Genesis Mic

I played the same riff repeatedly while stepping through the various pickup settings on the bass. I did them all with the bass's preamp on. Here's the order you hear in the clip:

Series | Centered
Series | Neck
Series | Bridge
Parallel | Centered
Parallel | Neck
Parallel | Bridge
Single Coil | Centered
Single Coil | Neck
Single Coil | Bridge

Here's the clip with the guitar in the mix:
"L-2000 Clip"

And here's the bass part solo'd:
"L-2000 Clip" (Bass Only)

In person, there's a pretty significant volume difference between the series, parallel and single coil settings. I normalized that out, though, so that one setting didn't sound better than another just because it's louder.

 

[Musicman20]

GBs service is great...I can imagine they will iron this out. However, due to different players locations, we all receive different levels of service from each manufacturer. If I were US based I'd get an all Genz rig, and I still might, but being in the UK brings barriers, as with most US companies.

However, to comment on TCs customer service, my experience was fantastic. Maybe that is due to them being European and thus easier for the service to carried out.

 

[RocketMusic]

not to derail but I'm frustrated with UPS as I am currently waiting for my SL 900 from Greg at Rocketmusic..he shipped on Monday and has been GREAT to deal with BTW. My SL is in the UPS warehouse 30 mins away..due to inclement weather they were unable to deliver it to me on Weds(the day it WAS to be delivered), thursday..diggin out.. this I completely understand...can't control blizzards..

BUT..fedex delivered a shuttlemax 12 to me on Friday despite the conditions..both heads shipped same day from the mid south to me in Chicago.. and UPS is not open on Saturdays..GRRRRRRRRRRR

Now I have to wait 'til Monday and hope the delivery is undamaged and that the tubes are good...patience..patience....

Not that this will make you feel any better... but you're not alone. I shipped a bunch of these heads, and I'm getting exception notifications all over the country. Even places where it isn't snowing, the heads are still being slowed down when the 18-wheeler portion of the route had to go through a part of the country that did get snow.

My apologies for the delay, and my thanks for your patience!! Hopefully you see it Monday. It should be worth the wait!!

 

[hasbeen]

It's a pity Ken's rule is 2-strikes instead of 3-striokes. Given the sort of gigs he plays (high dollar, no room for error), though, I get it.

I understand his position completely. Ken has been nothing short of incredibly patient and a true gentleman. Our apologies to you too Greg.

 

[RocketMusic]

I understand his position completely. Ken has been nothing short of incredibly patient and a true gentleman. Our apologies to you too Greg.

Not necessary at all! Sometimes, tubes are just tubes. We ship a lot of guitar amps, too (80 lb all-tube beasts). I don't sleep a wink until those things have been delivered and the customer reports happiness. The Streamliner doesn't give me anywhere near that level of discomfort.

Thanks for all you guys have done! Outstanding service, as usual!

 

[LilRay]

Greg, If I can swing a new rig, I'm buyin; from you! I'll just have you test 'er out

Ken, Sorry things went that way, but I'm glad GB backed you 100%. Makes me more comfortable with a company I've never done business with.

The Streamliner still has me piqued. Now I'm off for obtaining funds.



God Bless, Ray

 

[lindseyp]

Here is the first clip... just the Streamliner, set rather clean and a bit bright. ...

Good clip. Nice bass.

 

[GrowlerBox]

I've played around with the Streamliner with several different basses (G&L, Warwick, Roscoe, Suhr). The amp sounds very impressive with all of them. My short summary of the head is "wow".

Great clips, Greg. Double as a very cool demonstration of the versatility of the G&L (my main slab on the rare occasions I'm not playing my EUB).

Even though I'm going with the TC amp, I'm always highly impressed by the CS displayed by the Genz team here on TB. Given that both of these companies are based a long way from me, I'm hoping that any differences there are moot.

 

[pjhandlin]

I've played around with the Streamliner with several different basses (G&L, Warwick, Roscoe, Suhr). The amp sounds very impressive with all of them. My short summary of the head is "wow".

My slightly longer version is that it sounds as close to my own old-school rig (an Alembic F1 preamp into a Crest CA9 power amp) as any of the lightweight heads that I've heard (Genz Benz, TC, MarkBass). The Streamliner is the only one that sounds like it has a 50lb hunk of iron in the power supply. It takes the bass tone and wraps it in warm, round, buttery goodness. The low end is big, round and smooth.

Can you tell I'm a big fan?

I'm obviously disappointed with Ken's experience with this head, but my hat is certainly off to Genz-Benz for doing their usual excellent job at customer service. It's a pity Ken's rule is 2-strikes instead of 3-strikes. Given the sort of gigs he plays (high dollar, no room for error), though, I get it.

I recently did a quick recording session with the head. The signal chain was:

G&L L-2000 -> Streamliner 900 -> UBER Quad Cab -> MXL Genesis Mic

I played the same riff repeatedly while stepping through the various pickup settings on the bass. I did them all with the bass's preamp on. Here's the order you hear in the clip:

Series | Centered
Series | Neck
Series | Bridge
Parallel | Centered
Parallel | Neck
Parallel | Bridge
Single Coil | Centered
Single Coil | Neck
Single Coil | Bridge

Here's the clip with the guitar in the mix:
"L-2000 Clip"

And here's the bass part solo'd:
"L-2000 Clip" (Bass Only)

In person, there's a pretty significant volume difference between the series, parallel and single coil settings. I normalized that out, though, so that one setting didn't sound better than another just because it's louder.

Greg, thanks for posting clips. The neck vs bridge examples are excellent!

Can you share the amp settings used?

I'm interested to know how much grit and dirt in the clips are from the preamp vs instrument vs cab/mic placement.

Thanks!

 

[kesslari]

My take on Ken's situation is an interesting one - I think it was TOO MUCH of "great GB service" that was the actual problem (and trust me, I love GB's service and "we'll make it right, pronto" attitude).

Ken had a bad tube in his first amp - the phone diagnosis and "likely scenario" made that pretty clear.

Great service would be "we'll overnight you a new tube". Had GB done that, all would have been successful.

Unbelievably great service (maybe too great, which is what I'm saying) is "we'll overnight you a new amp". And the new amp also suffered in shipping, or had a problem.

Sending a new tube would have been sufficient and most likely a better resolution.
Well, hindsight is always 20/20. Hats off to GB as always for the way they stand behind their products.

Mine arrived ahead of schedule (wow UPS - maybe because we're the only part of the country that's not snowed in) and it is truly all that, a bag of chips, and a keg of ale.
The sound is rich and full. It's a wonderful complement to my nEarful and Zon Fretless.
I'll be gigging this amp shortly and will post clips if we remember to turn the record button on.