Genzler Amplification Club

[Loring]

I hear what you're saying.
Some folks fight the idea of NO HPF.
No HPF is not a sin or a bad thing.
Some people LOVE them and some don't.
I see more engineers HPF guitars to get them out of the way in slotting a mix.

It's not so much one is hearing that deep and low, but it's the way it feels in a band. Not everyone gets to play thru a PA. It's adds a 3D FEEL and it's that BOUNCE . And its impossible to EQ in something that is stripped away up front.

personally, I wouldn't worry about running out of power because any ( said amp) may not have a HPF.
If an amp is capable of putting out 800 watts , then running out of power shouldn't be a thing to worry about. It's gonna be way louder than most would ever need on a reasonable club gig.

It is actually a bad thing yes. When your amp is sending a signal that your speakers aren’t reproducing - there is no feel thing and no 3D thing and no bounce thing. It just wastes power and gives no discernible advantage.

there’s a really good website that explains the different frequency ranges and how they fit into the overall mix. I will try to find it for you. It is somewhat eye opening.

 

[Loring]

Couldn’t find the one I’m looking for but this one is also a good read.

How to EQ Bass Guitar for Energy, Punch, & Clarity | LedgerNote

 

[Discount Saint]

Updated roster - February 24th, 2021

As usual, please PM me if you'd like to join, and if I've missed anybody please let me know.

#1 - Jeff Genzler
#2 - Discount Saint
#3 - revroy
#4 - MichaelOz
#5 - Hotblack
#6 - davel66
#7 - bebass
#8 - Ryan L.
#9 - bassnz
#10 - gclark51
#11 - paujones
#12 - Spfairchild
#13 - 1bassplayin
#14 - BluesyCat
#15 - Eddie LeBlanc
#16 - BuffaloBob4343
#17 - SWRnut
#18 - BruiserYL
#19 - jgolfer
#20 - danhilde
#21 - ExaltBass
#22 - kobass
#23 - pachoate
#24 - TheRealKong
#25 - ccbass71
#26 - Sav'nBass+
#27 - IanA
#28 - campbems
#29 - jazzenfunk
#30 - jlepre
#31 - jobbermania
#32 - pablomigraine
#33 - flewis
#34 - Tdub77
#35 - tombowlus
#36 - arrowsun
#37 - noahw1
#38 - tkonbass
#39 - svtb15
#40 - JLY
#41 - rodl2005
#42 - Double Agent
#43 - cv115505
#44 - Tonycarlson
#45 - guitarbrent
#46 - dwellers
#47 - motorhall
#48 - SadowskySteve
#49 - ergodynebass
#50 - Cube Bass
#51 - metallicafan18
#52 - ThePolarBeard
#53 - RColie
#54 - slinkyphil
#55 - bassjam
#56 - 3bc
#57 - Hunter34
#58 - LennyJ
#59 - lordradish
#60 - sigterm
#61 - Cazman
#62 - jwitzend
#63 - Wicked G
#64 - FunkySpoo
#65 - Loring
#66 - rok51
#67 - Cracker7
#68 - alexbrownebass
#69 - P-bass bluesman
#70 - Holdsg
#71 - PaddyMcBass
#72 - Wicked Thunder
#72 - WickedThunder
#73 - draygriff
#74 - Fred312b
#75 - Nightman
#76 - ferarayabass
#77 - BlueLou
#78 - ThumbyAche
#79 - RNG1
#80 - Turtle71
#81 - berman3313
#82 - Modulus 96
#83 - ChrisWright
#84 - Joeykun
#85 - DrSteve
#86 - Chipit
#87 - Todd Larson
#88 - theShrink
#89 - Sodbuster
#90 - Basehead
#91 - Dontleavedayjob
#92 - Rob Klaassen
#93 - crucislancer
#94 - Link Removed
#95 - Han_Mono
#96 - arnebv
#97 - Zoffy
#98 - Link Removed
#99 - PhishPhan22
#100 - Link Removed
#101 - duncmill
#102 - FeltTipPen
#103 - Mr. Business
#104 - drewonedge
#105 - Basselink
#106 - PaulS
#107 - ROY PENNON
#108 - rowsi
#109 - KJAXE
#110 - Spupilup
#111 - Oori
#112 - PraiseBassing
#113 - SLPimp
#114 - Nuage420
#115 - DingwallDingus

 

[RColie]

Updated roster - February 24th, 2021

As usual, please PM me if you'd like to join, and if I've missed anybody please let me know.

#1 - Jeff Genzler
#2 - Discount Saint
#3 - revroy
#4 - MichaelOz
#5 - Hotblack
#6 - davel66
#7 - bebass
#8 - Ryan L.
#9 - bassnz
#10 - gclark51
#11 - paujones
#12 - Spfairchild
#13 - 1bassplayin
#14 - BluesyCat
#15 - Eddie LeBlanc
#16 - BuffaloBob4343
#17 - SWRnut
#18 - BruiserYL
#19 - jgolfer
#20 - danhilde
#21 - ExaltBass
#22 - kobass
#23 - pachoate
#24 - TheRealKong
#25 - ccbass71
#26 - Sav'nBass+
#27 - IanA
#28 - campbems
#29 - jazzenfunk
#30 - jlepre
#31 - jobbermania
#32 - pablomigraine
#33 - flewis
#34 - Tdub77
#35 - tombowlus
#36 - arrowsun
#37 - noahw1
#38 - tkonbass
#39 - svtb15
#40 - JLY
#41 - rodl2005
#42 - Double Agent
#43 - cv115505
#44 - Tonycarlson
#45 - guitarbrent
#46 - dwellers
#47 - motorhall
#48 - SadowskySteve
#49 - ergodynebass
#50 - Cube Bass
#51 - metallicafan18
#52 - ThePolarBeard
#53 - RColie
#54 - slinkyphil
#55 - bassjam
#56 - 3bc
#57 - Hunter34
#58 - LennyJ
#59 - lordradish
#60 - sigterm
#61 - Cazman
#62 - jwitzend
#63 - Wicked G
#64 - FunkySpoo
#65 - Loring
#66 - rok51
#67 - Cracker7
#68 - alexbrownebass
#69 - P-bass bluesman
#70 - Holdsg
#71 - PaddyMcBass
#72 - Wicked Thunder
#72 - WickedThunder
#73 - draygriff
#74 - Fred312b
#75 - Nightman
#76 - ferarayabass
#77 - BlueLou
#78 - ThumbyAche
#79 - RNG1
#80 - Turtle71
#81 - berman3313
#82 - Modulus 96
#83 - ChrisWright
#84 - Joeykun
#85 - DrSteve
#86 - Chipit
#87 - Todd Larson
#88 - theShrink
#89 - Sodbuster
#90 - Basehead
#91 - Dontleavedayjob
#92 - Rob Klaassen
#93 - crucislancer
#94 - Link Removed
#95 - Han_Mono
#96 - arnebv
#97 - Zoffy
#98 - Link Removed
#99 - PhishPhan22
#100 - Link Removed
#101 - duncmill
#102 - FeltTipPen
#103 - Mr. Business
#104 - drewonedge
#105 - Basselink
#106 - PaulS
#107 - ROY PENNON
#108 - rowsi
#109 - KJAXE
#110 - Spupilup
#111 - Oori
#112 - PraiseBassing
#113 - SLPimp
#114 - Nuage420
#115 - DingwallDingus

Thanks again for doing this for us!

 

[DingwallDingus]

Posted in the Dingwall thread already but I'll post here too. Figured out this silly tune by ear last night out of boredom. It's a little tricky cause its fast.



Dingwall NG-2 - Darkglass Hyper Luminal - Darkglass B7k - Magellan 800 - Ampeg SVX 8x10 blended 50/50 with Post EQ DI.

Magellan was set flat with drive gain, volume and contour B at 11 o'clock.

 

[User363432]

I find that to be subjective. That's OK. We all have an opinion and each every single one is valid .
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I fell off decades ago in to this nashville scene and others.

Remember, the SVT 810 cab will only go maybe to 70HZ @ 10bd down. But the head produces much lower than 70hz. It's a beautiful sound. Not for everyone.

Since when do bass players worry about WASTE?
Many of us think 8k, 9k, 10k,11Khz is waste . Just messes with Vox and cymbals.
Most engineers will LPF that high stuff out.. But then many of you guys like that 10k stuff.
But that doesn't work for most pop and country records.
Im working on a record right now where we SLOT the mix. THEN i will maybe HPF the bass . When mixing. But for LIVE I prefer to roll off my EQ and have the option to do so than NOT have the option.
I guess I'm trying to express that ONE SIZE doesn't fit all.

It is actually a bad thing yes. When your amp is sending a signal that your speakers aren’t reproducing - there is no feel thing and no 3D thing and no bounce thing. It just wastes power and gives no discernible advantage.

there’s a really good website that explains the different frequency ranges and how they fit into the overall mix. I will try to find it for you. It is somewhat eye opening.

 

[Loring]

I find that to be subjective. That's OK. We all have an opinion and each every single one is valid .
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I fell off decades ago in to this nashville scene and others.

Remember, the SVT 810 cab will only go maybe to 70HZ @ 10bd down. But the head produces much lower than 70hz. It's a beautiful sound. Not for everyone.

Since when do bass players worry about WASTE?
Many of us think 8k, 9k, 10k,11Khz is waste . Just messes with Vox and cymbals.
Most engineers will LPF that high stuff out.. But then many of you guys like that 10k stuff.
But that doesn't work for most pop and country records.
Im working on a record right now where we SLOT the mix. THEN i will maybe HPF the bass . When mixing. But for LIVE I prefer to roll off my EQ and have the option to do so than NOT have the option.
I guess I'm trying to express that ONE SIZE doesn't fit all.

its not just power waste - lots of power to be had. It’s sonic waste. If your speaker is trying to produce frequencies it’s incapable of, it interferes with what it is capable of...

you say the svt is a beautiful sound and only produces down to about 70 hz- so a 70hz hpf would only improve the sound with no negative impact.

another thing to consider with modern speaker designs. Most tend to be ported and tuned to allow much deeper response unlike the sealed enclosure of the svt.

with a sealed design- harder to get to lower frequencies but also there is some excursion protection built in. With a tuned port design things can get nasty when you send too much signal below what it’s designed for.

End of the day - the Magellan was designed to get the best sound possible down to the fundamental note of a low B. Both the speakers and the head were designed with that in mind.

The SVT barely hits the first harmonic of the low E. It still sounds good because that’s where we hear the bass mostly - in that 60-100hz range.

the lack of an hpf in the svt is a non issue since effectively the cab is forcing one on you anyways...

listen to some sine waves at 60/40/30 hz and see if that’s what you’re missing from your sound.

I think that the hpf is probably the secret weapon as to why this amp sounds so great.

 

[User363432]

I'm simply saying it would be great to have a switch to BYPASS the baked in HPF if that is what someone wishes to do.
It won't cause the earth to spin the wrong way. In fact many players here in town and LA think the same way I do RE: HPF.

Also just because there is NO HPF doesn't mean the sound will turn to MUD. At least not for me.
THE DIRECT OUT of the amplifier ( PRE EQ ) has NO HPF according the amp maker.
Does that mean your bass will suddenly turn to MUD in the PA?

There is a BASS CONTROL that can help tailor the stage sound.
Much like there is a VOLUME CONTROL on amp to lower the volume.

You push mostly your OWN OPINION . Using words like BEST.
Assume I use ported cabs is incorrect I also have some sealed cabs.

It would be NICE to have the option. And at 800 watts? I don't think anyone needs to worry about WASTING power.

You seem to be against people having an OPTION> I'm not sure why? I am open to an OPTION of ON of OFF.. But then I could buy another brand amp. Thats easy. But it would be nice to have the "OPTION"
Like i said earlier. The DI OUT is nOT HPF.. Does that make your FOH like MUD too? That answer would be NO.

its not just power waste - lots of power to be had. It’s sonic waste. If your speaker is trying to produce frequencies it’s incapable of, it interferes with what it is capable of...

you say the svt is a beautiful sound and only produces down to about 70 hz- so a 70hz hpf would only improve the sound with no negative impact.

another thing to consider with modern speaker designs. Most tend to be ported and tuned to allow much deeper response unlike the sealed enclosure of the svt.

with a sealed design- harder to get to lower frequencies but also there is some excursion protection built in. With a tuned port design things can get nasty when you send too much signal below what it’s designed for.

End of the day - the Magellan was designed to get the best sound possible down to the fundamental note of a low B. Both the speakers and the head were designed with that in mind.

The SVT barely hits the first harmonic of the low E. It still sounds good because that’s where we hear the bass mostly - in that 60-100hz range.

the lack of an hpf in the svt is a non issue since effectively the cab is forcing one on you anyways...

listen to some sine waves at 60/40/30 hz and see if that’s what you’re missing from your sound.

I think that the hpf is probably the secret weapon as to why this amp sounds so great.

 

[jjk2007]

Another great night with the Genzler rig. Another testimony to the great design....BL always asked me with my old rig to face it towards him more (we don’t run instruments through the PA here) and asked me to do the same last night. I told him “no need” with the Genzler setup. I told him to just wait until we get through the first set. At the end of the set I asked if he needed it turned toward him. He immediately said no and went on about how amazing the Genzler stuff sounded. Another win. Bass sounded amazing!! That is all.....

 

[74hc]

Another great night with the Genzler rig. Another testimony to the great design....BL always asked me with my old rig to face it towards him more (we don’t run instruments through the PA here) and asked me to do the same last night. I told him “no need” with the Genzler setup. I told him to just wait until we get through the first set. At the end of the set I asked if he needed it turned toward him. He immediately said no and went on about how amazing the Genzler stuff sounded. Another win. Bass sounded amazing!! That is all.....

View attachment 4183392

What is that cab? A 4x8" or 10"?

Looks too small for a 4x10 but that maybe due to the camera.

 

[Loring]

410

 

[User363432]

Its basically the same size as the OLD 1980s SWR 410 goliath. Compact. But this is a beast cab

What is that cab? A 4x8" or 10"?

Looks too small for a 4x10 but that maybe due to the camera.

 

[jjk2007]

What is that cab? A 4x8" or 10"?

Looks too small for a 4x10 but that maybe due to the camera.

it is a 4X10 as others have said....it is very compact and weighs just over the 50lb mark so it is extremely easy to lift and move. With the overall (awesome) design I find myself not needing to run near as much volume to be heard and just the overall sound profile of this rig works wonders for me. (YMMV)

 

[Jeff Genzler]

it is a 4X10 as others had said....it is very compact and weighs just over the 50lb mark so it is extremely easy to lift and move. With the overall (awesome) design I find myself not needing to run near as much volume to be heard and just the overall sound profile of this rig works wonders for me. (YMMV)

@jjk2007 ---- Your comments are so true to what I discuss with a lot of players regarding "how loud" can these cabs get. With the BA design it is not just "brute force" of output (which it can do) but there is a "finesse" to the projection. There is so much more "travel" to the output of each note for each watt that you put into the cab.
While that is not technical jargon that is just how it is perceived. And for the player that translates into not having to work your instrument so hard (and your wrists and forearms) to get back what you're hearing in your head. There is no piece of "test equipment" that can measure that, that I'm aware of.
This is what you need to experience for yourself.

 

[SCB]

Im relatively new to bass playing so i am yet to buy my genzler kit, but i will be soon....Is this travel and projection helped by the separation of frequencies? The array has small speakers not tweeters that take over some of the mid frequency work as well has the higher end, which allows the woofer to do its job much more efficiently. Just a thought.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Im relatively new to bass playing so i am yet to buy my genzler kit, but i will be soon....Is this travel and projection helped by the separation of frequencies? The array has small speakers not tweeters that take over some of the mid frequency work as well has the higher end, which allows the woofer to do its job much more efficiently. Just a thought.

@SCB ---welcome to the forum and bass playing. I appreciate your interest in our products. Your understanding is correct as far as the basic design of the Bass Array. The small 3" drivers do handle upper mids through the top end that would normally be covered by a tweeter. Because it is a line array, those principals project those mids and highs much broader in the horizontal plane and well as forward into the room. Another factor is that the lower frequencies are more omni present from the larger woofers in the design. With the BA concept these different components seamlessly blend so that there is no "separation" of the source on the sound ---- so everything sounds and feels like it is coming from the center of the baffle. But you hear and feel the cabinet response more broadly around the stage and venue, and not just directly in front of the cabinet.
If you'd like to PM me I can offer more insight into any questions you might have.

 

[jjk2007]

Im relatively new to bass playing so i am yet to buy my genzler kit, but i will be soon....Is this travel and projection helped by the separation of frequencies? The array has small speakers not tweeters that take over some of the mid frequency work as well has the higher end, which allows the woofer to do its job much more efficiently. Just a thought.

i have been playing 4X10 cabs for years.....all with tweeters. The BA 410 has been the most ‘musical’ cab I’ve owned by far. The transitions between lows to mids to highs blend so seamlessly. No matter where I play on the neck the notes ‘speak’ full and consistent. Mess with the EQ and you can get that deep but snappy slap sound for days. Dial in some mids and get plenty of punch. This cab handles it all. I use the MG 800 and typically run the EQ flat with no contour and it sounds killer.

 

[PhishPhan22]

@SCB ---welcome to the forum and bass playing. I appreciate your interest in our products. Your understanding is correct as far as the basic design of the Bass Array. The small 3" drivers do handle upper mids through the top end that would normally be covered by a tweeter. Because it is a line array, those principals project those mids and highs much broader in the horizontal plane and well as forward into the room. Another factor is that the lower frequencies are more omni present from the larger woofers in the design. With the BA concept these different components seamlessly blend so that there is no "separation" of the source on the sound ---- so everything sounds and feels like it is coming from the center of the baffle. But you hear and feel the cabinet response more broadly around the stage and venue, and not just directly in front of the cabinet.
If you'd like to PM me I can offer more insight into any questions you might have.

Hey jeff!

So I wanted to update the forum I know this an some other threads were wondering what I would choose to add to my megellan 800 and 15” single cab array. After talks with jeff and the local music shop owner who is an amazing bass player and very knowledgeable, I went with a second 15” slanted array cab. I was not chasing volume but more to get my fx like phasers and envelope filters to cut through mix at band levels much better. I don’t have many fx “synth, octave “prob should sell don’t use much”, envelope filter, compression. No particular order. The second 15” allowed me to turn down an not push the one single cab hard and it really filled out sound. Super full. I’m still only two rehearsals into having it. But I hope I end up liking it. I’m still learning how to dial in the megellan head. With a Spector Euro 5 the 2019 models and a fender jazz that’s two basses with totally diff sounds and output. But I am loving the second cab for sure, I think I messed up by buying a single 15” cab by itself when I first bought a cab. I should’ve atleats for a 2x12.


I’m kinda curious as to if anyone is using the 15” slanted x2 with their rig? And how they like and dial it in? Should I just have gotten a 4x10 or should I? Is there anything I should know with running the two 15s?

also I know this was talked about in the thread but I figured I’d ask cause there’s a lot of pages now, lol, does anyone put anything in the fx loop with greater results? Like the effect cuts through better maybe? Also with bass should like a filter and octave go before a compressor? Sorry for all the questions thumpers. I’m a tone snob slowly gettitn to where I want to be.

 

[Loring]

I like my comp before pitch shifting but after wah/distortion but sometimes I use it all. I use an es-8 that let’s me change the order as necessary and also allows me to parallel any effects I want.

 

[SLPimp]

I dont use filters, but when I did I liked them before comp. Mine goes tuner, comp, OD, chorus, preamp, HPF.