Genzler Amplification Club

[ImTheOnlyOne]

You may not have read the Guitar Center interview with Jeff. I posted the link here recently. In the interview, Jeff said: "Everybody's seeing these stick PA systems with the woofer on the bottom, and...

Be sure and read the whole thing. The interview hits on a number of the topics most often asked about in this thread by people who aren't familiar with the Genzler design concepts.

That covered it and more - thanks for sharing hot off the presses!

 

[PhishPhan22]

I will say when I was first looking at what rig I wanted i luckily have a shop that Carries a lot of high end gear locally even though I live far from where I actually do most my playing live. But I tried Mesa, augilar, GK, you name it. they all had something to offer but when I plugged into the genzler there was just a diff sound. An I can’t speak to how much the head an cab impact the tone meaning which is more influential. But I will say the cabs are second to really none. The weight of them, a sound they deliver, a frequencies they handle an I love the array an STL features. With using 15”s I think the Array and Stl feature shined even more which prob is why I went with it. I’ve played festivals an shows where the sound guys are just blown away by the tones out of the cabs like I think alot see me with 2 15”s an think omg it’s going to just be bass bass bass. But the clarity an mids even 15” give is impressive an im willing to bet the array a slight slant have a major factor in this.

 

[Moonskunk]

Still trying to get a question answered before commiting to one of these. If I purchased a single BA-10 array cab would I be able to still use my existing 2x8 Warwick 8ohm 300 watt cab in conjunction with the BA-10 until an additional BA-10 could be purchased or would this just mess things up sound wise? Would it be advised to turn off the tweeter on the Warwick ? This is to be used with a Mesa D-350 head. Thanks

 

[smogg]

Still trying to get a question answered before commiting to one of these. If I purchased a single BA-10 array cab would I be able to still use my existing 2x8 Warwick 8ohm 300 watt cab in conjunction with the BA-10 until an additional BA-10 could be purchased or would this just mess things up sound wise? Would it be advised to turn off the tweeter on the Warwick ? This is to be used with a Mesa D-350 head. Thanks

IMO yes, turn the tweeter off on the regular cab and let the array carry the top end. As for how well the two cabs sound together is totally subjective. Let your ears decide if you like it or not. I recommend to do the battery test to make sure the two cabs are in phase though.

FYI: I'm running a D-800+ into a version 1 BA 12-3 on top of a neoX 212T (loaded with nos oem NX2 Faitals) and run it with the tweeter off on the 212. This stack simply kills imo. Gratuitous pic attached.

 

[Michael Vee]

Skunk, is your Warwick cab the Gnome CAB 2/8/4? The one I've pictured below? If so, that is a four ohm cab. The Genzler is 8 ohms. The D-350 could handle the combined load, (I believe it would, Andy can confirm), but the Gnome would get more power than the Genzler. The Warwick site doesn't list an efficiency for the Gnome, but it is possible that the Gnome would end up being somewhat louder than the Genzler since it has two woofers and would get more power. Whether or not to turn down the tweeter would be a matter of taste. There's not a way of knowing what the two cabs would sound like together, you'd have to try the combination, then adjust tone controls to suit. I don't think it would sound "messed up", but it's probably not the ideal long-term combination.

You haven't heard the BA-10-2-S2 cab yet. It's not going to blow the roof off the house, but they get *quite* loud for their size for a single cab. A lot will depend on your playing style, 5-string vs. 4-string, and the other musicians you plan on playing with. If you are reasonable about things like not maxing out the volume controls and how much pure low-end you want to hear, the cab is very capable. You might not need to use a second cab.. but there are variables.

Gnome: Power handling 200 watts, Frequency range 70 Hz to 19 kHz, Dimensions (H x W x D) 21 21/32" x 10 15/64" x 12 13/64"

Genzler: Power Handling 300 watts, Frequency Response: 48-20KHz, Dimensions (H x W x D) 13″ x 15.5″ x 15″

As you can see, the Gnome would probably need to be on top of the Genzler due to the depth difference. As a tall cabinet, dimension-wise, how well it would stay on top of the slant cabinet while playing loudly is hard to say.

If you've got the bucks, buy the Genzler and try this combination out. You sound pretty convinced that you want it. When you get it, since you are used to the Warwick, it's safe to say that you'll be quite impressed. Then start saving up for a second 10-2 IF you need it.

 

[PhishPhan22]

So quick question on the re/Q pedal. For those that got it, how do you use it and what did it offer to you other then more eq? I like the drive pedal that genzler has that has a HPF an LPF an then an extra contour. Idk if the extra contour knob would make just take over for the one on the head or would give the contour even more range. But I wonder if having the filters a contour Knobs would be a more welcome than the extended eq.

before I can make the purchase an sell one of my 15”STL Arrays for a 2x10. I’ll have to use the pair for a min. I wish you could eq
One cab an maybe make it be a little less bassy a then other. I’m wondering if the re/q would help me get more cut an growl till
I can get the 2x10. But I also think I’d buy the re/q eventually anyway with diff room, PAs, an active pre/amps have the extended re/q pedal has to be alot of help with that.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Still trying to get a question answered before commiting to one of these. If I purchased a single BA-10 array cab would I be able to still use my existing 2x8 Warwick 8ohm 300 watt cab in conjunction with the BA-10 until an additional BA-10 could be purchased or would this just mess things up sound wise? Would it be advised to turn off the tweeter on the Warwick ? This is to be used with a Mesa D-350 head. Thanks

Sorry I've not responded. I don't know much about the 2 x 8 but with other manufacturers cabs combined with our BA cabs, I usually do recommend to turn off the tweeters if possible. Let the Array provide all the mid and top end detail.
AND since the footprint of your Warwick is probably smaller than the BA cab, I'd recommend laying down the Warwick cab on it's side and then placing the BA10-2 on top. I think this would provide a phatter LF and the line array would be at a nice height to be heard nicely and projected accross the performance venue.
Of course, if this sounds pretty good to you then I think adding a second BA10-2-S2 cabinet to your first one would be the icing on the cake. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Read this: An Array of Sound | Better Bass Rigs with Jeff Genzler. In it, Jeff said: "Everybody's seeing these stick PA systems with the woofer on the bottom, and line array column pole-mounted on the top. Well, we basically considered that concept, which is very separated, and squished it into one box. ... The column moved up and down the inside of the cabinet, but it was always in the cabinet. But bringing it down to where it sits in front of the woofer was one of the last iterations. I said, “Okay, well, this makes it compact,” which is everything a bass player wants. And it also brought all the sound and the sound pressure right in the center of the box, whether you're talking about a 12" in the line array or a 4x10" line array."

The interview hits on a number of the topics most often asked about in this thread by people who aren't familiar with the Genzler design concepts. A few examples: Why a slant cabinet? What did you see as the opportunities for improvement as you were developing the new Series 2? What type of performance differences would the average player experience between (the Magellan and Nu Classic lines) as compared to the Bass Array line?

Excellent questions and many more that Jeff, as always, took time to answer well. The interview is a must-read. Genzler should add a PDF of it, or a link to it, to their website.

Thanks Michael. I appreciate your comments. We will be linking to this Inteview on our social media sites, but will also see about adding it to our website as well. Good idea!!

 

[agedhorse]

Skunk, is your Warwick cab the Gnome CAB 2/8/4? The one I've pictured below? If so, that is a four ohm cab. The Genzler is 8 ohms. The D-350 could handle the combined load, (I believe it would, Andy can confirm), but the Gnome would get more power than the Genzler. The Warwick site doesn't list an efficiency for the Gnome, but it is possible that the Gnome would end up being somewhat louder than the Genzler since it has two woofers and would get more power. Whether or not to turn down the tweeter would be a matter of taste. There's not a way of knowing what the two cabs would sound like together, you'd have to try the combination, then adjust tone controls to suit. I don't think it would sound "messed up", but it's probably not the ideal long-term combination.

The D-350's minimum load is 4 ohms, so it will not drive a 4 ohm and 8 ohm cabinet simultaneously.

 

[Moonskunk]

Skunk, is your Warwick cab the Gnome CAB 2/8/4? The one I've pictured below? If so, that is a four ohm cab. The Genzler is 8 ohms. The D-350 could handle the combined load, (I believe it would, Andy can confirm), but the Gnome would get more power than the Genzler. The Warwick site doesn't list an efficiency for the Gnome, but it is possible that the Gnome would end up being somewhat louder than the Genzler since it has two woofers and would get more power. Whether or not to turn down the tweeter would be a matter of taste. There's not a way of knowing what the two cabs would sound like together, you'd have to try the combination, then adjust tone controls to suit. I don't think it would sound "messed up", but it's probably not the ideal long-term combination.

You haven't heard the BA-10-2-S2 cab yet. It's not going to blow the roof off the house, but they get *quite* loud for their size for a single cab. A lot will depend on your playing style, 5-string vs. 4-string, and the other musicians you plan on playing with. If you are reasonable about things like not maxing out the volume controls and how much pure low-end you want to hear, the cab is very capable. You might not need to use a second cab.. but there are variables.

Gnome: Power handling 200 watts, Frequency range 70 Hz to 19 kHz, Dimensions (H x W x D) 21 21/32" x 10 15/64" x 12 13/64"

Genzler: Power Handling 300 watts, Frequency Response: 48-20KHz, Dimensions (H x W x D) 13″ x 15.5″ x 15″

As you can see, the Gnome would probably need to be on top of the Genzler due to the depth difference. As a tall cabinet, dimension-wise, how well it would stay on top of the slant cabinet while playing loudly is hard to say.

If you've got the bucks, buy the Genzler and try this combination out. You sound pretty convinced that you want it. When you get it, since you are used to the Warwick, it's safe to say that you'll be quite impressed. Then start saving up for a second 10-2 IF you need it.

View attachment 5131401

No, that is not my Warwick cabinet. Mine is rated 300 watts and it's 8 ohm, it's the one pictured below. It's of of much higher quality than the newer Knome cabs, one of which you pictured that they make now. I had actually tried one and they are pretty much toys compared to the older cabs. I think I could stand up the Warwick 2x8 vertically and the BA 10 on top horizontal. I'm hoping the senstivity is pretty close. My main certain is how they would sound together with the tweeter on the Warwick turned off. The 2 cabs together makes a 4 ohm load so the Mesa D-350 would be putting out is full 350 watts.

 

[PhishPhan22]

So I one thing I noticed is I really like the high and low mid control on the mesa subway 800. Would adding the Re/q or something similar be the move to get if that’s what I’m going for? That was prob the one feature I loved about the mesa subway vs the genzler magellan but I imagine this isn’t hard to add to a rig to get or maybe even more possible in the eq settings I have now? Just not aware. Any help much appreciated.

 

[Bassi5t]

So I one thing I noticed is I really like the high and low mid control on the mesa subway 800. Would adding the Re/q or something similar be the move to get if that’s what I’m going for? That was prob the one feature I loved about the mesa subway vs the genzler magellan but I imagine this isn’t hard to add to a rig to get or maybe even more possible in the eq settings I have now? Just not aware. Any help much appreciated.

I didn’t like their positioning at all. The high mid is more of a low mid control also. The D800+ was a lot better for me. That said I don’t have either, or a Genzler for that matter. I’m more of a fan of getting a head that I do t need to add peddles to to make sound how I want. YMMV

 

[agedhorse]

So I one thing I noticed is I really like the high and low mid control on the mesa subway 800. Would adding the Re/q or something similar be the move to get if that’s what I’m going for? That was prob the one feature I loved about the mesa subway vs the genzler magellan but I imagine this isn’t hard to add to a rig to get or maybe even more possible in the eq settings I have now? Just not aware. Any help much appreciated.

The RE/Q adds what are essentially 5 fixed mid bands to the Magellan amp, plus variable HPF and LPF's.

 

[Michael Vee]

The D-350's minimum load is 4 ohms, so it will not drive a 4 ohm and 8 ohm cabinet simultaneously.

Thanks, Andy, for clarifying.

 

[Michael Vee]

No, that is not my Warwick cabinet. Mine is rated 300 watts and it's 8 ohm, it's the one pictured below. It's of of much higher quality than the newer Knome cabs, one of which you pictured that they make now. I had actually tried one and they are pretty much toys compared to the older cabs. I think I could stand up the Warwick 2x8 vertically and the BA 10 on top horizontal. I'm hoping the senstivity is pretty close. My main certain is how they would sound together with the tweeter on the Warwick turned off. The 2 cabs together makes a 4 ohm load so the Mesa D-350 would be putting out is full 350 watts.

This makes a lot more sense. You should give the combination a try, for sure.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I have a pair of MG350s and a pair of BA12-3s (first version). In a couple of weeks, I have a show at a large outdoor venue in Denver. So far, this rig has kept with all my gigs, but the outdoor ones have tended to be smaller (500 people vs. up to 18,000).

Any thoughts about whether it would sufficient, or should I look into augmenting it with either more power (I have an Alembic F-2B and a Crest ProLite 3.0. I wish the MG350s had a line out.) and/or more speakers. I was thinking of adding a very old Bag End (more like a Grateful Dead Wall of Sound cabinet than the Bag Ends we all know) with a K140 in it on the bottom that sounds good with one MG350 powering that and the other powering the BA cabs.

We're pretty loud, but not crazy. Ideally, I'd like to get a BA15 SLT, but no funds at the moment.

 

[Bassi5t]

I have a pair of MG350s and a pair of BA12-3s (first version). In a couple of weeks, I have a show at a large outdoor venue in Denver. So far, this rig has kept with all my gigs, but the outdoor ones have tended to be smaller (500 people vs. up to 18,000).

Any thoughts about whether it would sufficient, or should I look into augmenting it with either more power (I have an Alembic F-2B and a Crest ProLite 3.0. I wish the MG350s had a line out.) and/or more speakers. I was thinking of adding a very old Bag End (more like a Grateful Dead Wall of Sound cabinet than the Bag Ends we all know) with a K140 in it on the bottom that sounds good with one MG350 powering that and the other powering the BA cabs.

We're pretty loud, but not crazy. Ideally, I'd like to get a BA15 SLT, but no funds at the moment.

I’ve played many outdoor shows with a Markbass Traveler 102 (small 210 cab) with no pa support. I think 2 12s would be just fine alone. The cone area of 2 12s is the same as 3 10s. Then again I’ve always liked the look of 3 112 cabs

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I’ve played many outdoor shows with a Markbass Traveler 102 (small 210 cab) with no pa support. I think 2 12s would be just fine alone. The cone area of 2 12s is the same as 3 10s. Then again I’ve always liked the look of 3 112 cabs

That's my other thought. A series 2 BA12 on top would probably make everything sound really good!

Here's the venue, although it stretches way behind where the picture was taken:

 

[Bassi5t]

Sooooooo, sad times! The super inexpensive BA210 cabs I was drooling over were sold before I could unload my Mesa cab. BUT there is a BA12 really close to me for a reasonable price. Can someone do scribe the sonic differences between the 210 and 112, please? Is one 112 enough for a band?

 

[denton57]

Checking in with my new NC-212. It with my Milkman and Nash PB-63…just perfect so far at the low and mid volume level. Haven’t had a chance to practice or gig with it, so I’ll check back in once it’s been in a live situation. But so far, it’s hard to stop playing because it sounds sooo good. Really impressed with the cab tonally and the whole rig overall. Very easy to lift and move for a ceramic cab.