Double Bass German bow teachers-Grad school

[BGreaney]

Tim Cobb is a firm believer and user of the French Bow.

haha i know...i don't think anyone ever suggested otherwise.

re: joel quarrington...just out of curiosity, how insistent is he that his students modify their setup to tuning in 5ths? If you don't change, is he less effective as a teacher? The reason I ask is because I saw a masterclass he gave a few years back and everything he seemed to say was in regard to how this lick in a bach suite would be easier if you tuned in 5ths, or how you could play a complete chord in this spot or that spot if you tuned in 5ths. It seemed more like he was trying to sell his new ideas about playing rather than give general thoughts that most students in the environment of a masterclass would probably find more useful.

Disclaimer: I concur that he is a ridiculously amazing player and this is in no way any sort of attack on him...just putting that out there to avoid any misunderstanding ahead of time...

 

[Snakewood]

haha i know...i don't think anyone ever suggested otherwise.

re: joel quarrington...just out of curiosity, how insistent is he that his students modify their setup to tuning in 5ths? If you don't change, is he less effective as a teacher? The reason I ask is because I saw a masterclass he gave a few years back and everything he seemed to say was in regard to how this lick in a bach suite would be easier if you tuned in 5ths, or how you could play a complete chord in this spot or that spot if you tuned in 5ths. It seemed more like he was trying to sell his new ideas about playing rather than give general thoughts that most students in the environment of a masterclass would probably find more useful.

Disclaimer: I concur that he is a ridiculously amazing player and this is in no way any sort of attack on him...just putting that out there to avoid any misunderstanding ahead of time...

Oh, that's a pretty decent question. I know that he has many students who do not tune in fifths, or should I said are in the process of converting. I think the idea is that, once you're studying with such an amazing teacher and performer you want to adapt to how he plays. He has a very gifted student that just switched to german bow but still tunes in fourths. Joel, teaches at many summer music schools to students in 4ths and with french bow. After all, that's where he started too.

 

[Dr Rod]

Mr Q is so talented he could tune his bass in tri-tones and make a case for it.

 

[Jake]

Jeff Bradetich is an awesome teacher. He can teach french or german. I play german and studied with him at UNT. He is a great musician, bass player, and a really nice person.

 

[Dr Rod]

Jeff Bradetich is an awesome teacher. He can teach french or german. I play german and studied with him at UNT. He is a great musician, bass player, and a really nice person.

I agree with almost everything, but most teachers claim to be able to teach both bows perfectly and this is rarely the case

I guess some really do, and Jeff might be one of them, but it's really unusual.

Most french bow teachers can help you with german bow if you are talented and play naturally, or if you are somewhat advanced to the point where it doesn't matter so much. However, if you happen to have a stumbling block (off the string strokes for example) you might find yourself taking private lessons or going to camps with german bow teachers to make up for their lack of true understanding of the german bow.

 

[Jake]

Well, I had a good Mozart stroke when I got to UNT, but Jeff really helped me to learn how to loosen up and conect my legato bow strokes over the whole bow. He also helped me a lot with heavy spicato. I think Jeff really understands what a german bow player has to do to play musically.

 

[Johnny L]

+1 for Jeff Bradetich

The guy gets a tone out of the bass with the French bow that any German bow player could envy...full and powerful.

I envy it, anyway LOL

 

[beerandbass]

i really question joel's status of being a good teacher. he try's to change how his student plays (5ths or german bow- specifically the snakewood bow)....and just because he can play well with it, and 5ths is easier to play what, a handleful of excerpts?, and extremely difficult to all the others...he wants to MAKE all his students play his way? - how close minded could a teacher be?

to his students here, name any bass players that have been a students of joel's for a degree and has kept playing in 4ths and french bow??

another question to his students here, name 1 student that he has taught that has won a MAJOR job?

(the only person i can think of is hilda, which im sure it didn't hurt her chances that he was judging the audition).......... and to say he's got no pull or that auditions can't be rigged? let's just say he's the highest paid member of his orchestra- MORE then the concertmaster... what orchestra do you know looks at the principal bass to lead the group???

and the fact that i mentioned 1 player who has almost won a full time job, means his name shouldn't even be mentioned in the big names being dropped in this thread.......

so with that being said, why would anyone skip going to school's that have amazing teachers who's students are great audition success, then go to a great (not the best)solo player who has little to no student success?

i know this seems like a harsh message, but it had to be said sometime........ i don't know why nobody hasn't brought this up before

 

[kontrabass]

to his students here, name any bass players that have been a students of joel's for a degree and has kept playing in 4ths and french bow??

Many of Joel's students in the Toronto Youth Orchestra (the exact name eludes me) are either, or.

Regardless, having a student change bows is not as big of a deal as you make it to be. Some teachers just don't feel comfortable teaching the other, even if they are proficient at the opposite bow.

another question to his students here, name 1 student that he has taught that has won a MAJOR job?

Nic Boychuk- Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra
Jeff White- Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra

Both were members of Canada's National Youth Orchestra

(the only person i can think of is hilda, which im sure it didn't hurt her chances that he was judging the audition).......... and to say he's got no pull or that auditions can't be rigged? let's just say he's the highest paid member of his orchestra- MORE then the concertmaster... what orchestra do you know looks at the principal bass to lead the group???

Of the past two NY Phil auditions, both of the winners were students of Mr. Levinson. I mention this not to point fingers, but to show that there are other examples of principals' students winning. Give me more time and I can most definitely think of other scenarios of the like.

and the fact that i mentioned 1 player who has almost won a full time job, means his name shouldn't even be mentioned in the big names being dropped in this thread.......

The idea of fifths tuning is really quite radical. I just spoke with Dennis Masuzzo, the author of the only method book on playing in fifths. Because I am interested in fifths, I asked of any teachers to where I am moving. His reply was as follows: "I don't know of anyone in the world who could teach you fifths besides Mr. Quarrington, me, and Silvio Dalla Torre."

Because of its radicalism, there aren't many players. Even if all of Joels students who play in fifths were to win an audition, I am positive that there would be no more than a handful.

so with that being said, why would anyone skip going to school's that have amazing teachers who's students are great audition success, then go to a great (not the best)solo player who has little to no student success?

i know this seems like a harsh message, but it had to be said sometime........ i don't know why nobody hasn't brought this up before

All in all, I disagree entirely.

Give the "fifths club" some time, you angry bassist.

 

[PaulCannon]

You both are lucky to be using anonymous names. I don't have that particular honor, so I'm going to keep whatever I have to say short and sweet.

Of the past two NY Phil auditions, both of the winners were students of Mr. Levinson. I mention this not to point fingers, but to show that there are other examples of principals' students winning. Give me more time and I can most definitely think of other scenarios of the like.

Not to knock Levinson, but he could easily be accused of everything "beerandbass" just said of Quarrington, without the fifths tuning. His approach to teaching is very strict, and it doesn't surprise me that his most successful students have gone on to work for him.

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't necessarily wrong to teach with a strict attitude towards teaching, but the student has to believe in the approach. While I strongly disagree, personally, with any teaching method that requires a student to emulate his teacher, I can't claim it isn't a valid way to teach. Forcing students to switch bows is nothing new, and goes back as far as the introduction of the French bass bow itself. I think requiring students to tune in fifths is needlessly excessive, but if student and teacher agree it is the best approach, who are we to disagree?

 

[.matthew e wengerd.]

I truly hope that aleandcarp's comments do not send the thread I started into a downward spiral, ultimately meaning the closing of an important thread.

Every time I open Double Bassist magazine, I am confronted by at least one player who is playing classical(read:non-jazz) music, but has little interest in a major symphony job. It seems to me that, although it may be of extreme importance in this "Orchestral Technique" forum, landing a gig in a major orchestra is not the only pinnacle of bass playing.

Mr. Quarrington may or may not be producing "winning" students - I honestly don't follow him that closely. But to introduce yourself (again, anonymously) to this forum by

question(ing) joel's status of being a good teacher.

indicates a lack of vision in my book.

By the way - I have since been offered a great financial package to attend the University of South Florida to study with Dee Moses (Classical/Arco) and Mark Neuenschwander (Jazz), neither of whom play German AFAIK. I am thoroughly confident in Dee's ability to get me where I need to go, though.

 

[beerandbass]

nic doesn't play for calgary phil.....he only had a few year contracts....it's done

jeff i believe has a full time job..... but you seem to be missing the point. Jeff went to IU for school.

(so i guess if he got a handful of lessons from Joel, Joel can now claim him as his only full time successful student?....)

and telling me that his students go on to be in the national youth orchestra of canada, its a YOUTH ORCHESTRA that plays in the summer........ are you even reading what i said???

he hasn't produced ANYONE himself.... so why would anyone go study with him?

ya you could call me an angry, but people are still defending joel. im not sure how? because playing has nothing to do with teaching... and it's pretty simple to see how someone teaches by their students, and when NO STUDENTS are in full time major jobs, how can anyone compare him to the great teachers???? insane.......

 

[PaulCannon]

Great. Then you don't need to go study with him. What's wrong if someone else disagrees with your point of view?

I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't study with him, either. But I don't think it's right to rudely attack him just because you don't happen to like the way he teaches.

 

[kontrabass]

I apologize for any "violent attacks" that my post seems to be filled with. I was merely defending Mr. Quarrington's studio and ability as a teacher.

As I said with Mr. Levinson, he was the first person to come to mind and I don't intend to point fingers at anyone at all.

Edit: Jeff White has studied with Joel..sometime between his studies at IU and his winning of Calgary.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

You both are lucky to be using anonymous names. I don't have that particular honor, so I'm going to keep whatever I have to say short and sweet.

Thank you. I'd like to kindly request that everyone stand behind their words, especially when casting aspersions on another well known player. It's a small world these days, and inflammatory comments about other living players on a public forum don't only get read by the parties making them, but also by anyone anywhere in the world who happens to read them on this forum. When these comments are made by anonymous individuals, they rank much lower on the evolutionary food chain as far as I'm concerned, since they cannot help but reflect on the forum itself.

Let's keep it real here. It would be nice if everyone took Paul's example and stood behind their opinions. Failing that, consider this a reminder that anonymous flame bait will only hasten the closing of this thread.

 

[Cory Palmer]

Beerandbass do you have any personal experience with Joel Quarrington? It seems like you're awfully angry at his teaching and it seems like you either don't know him or he did something to personally annoy you.

You don't have to have students in many professional orchestras to be a great teacher. If he has students switch to German bow or tune in fifths it's so that his students can get the most out of studying with him. I know if I was going to study with him I would at least try tuning in fifths for a little bit.

so with that being said, why would anyone skip going to school's that have amazing teachers who's students are great audition success, then go to a great (not the best)solo player who has little to no student success?

Different students get along with different teachers better and want to learn what specific teachers have to offer. There are very few, if any, teachers that I would go study with without having worked with before. Sometimes one lesson can tell you a lot about how you will work with somebody.

Also, fill out your profile.

 

[Justin K-ski]

nic doesn't play for calgary phil.....he only had a few year contracts....it's done

jeff i believe has a full time job..... but you seem to be missing the point. Jeff went to IU for school.

(so i guess if he got a handful of lessons from Joel, Joel can now claim him as his only full time successful student?....)

and telling me that his students go on to be in the national youth orchestra of canada, its a YOUTH ORCHESTRA that plays in the summer........ are you even reading what i said???

he hasn't produced ANYONE himself.... so why would anyone go study with him?

ya you could call me an angry, but people are still defending joel. im not sure how? because playing has nothing to do with teaching... and it's pretty simple to see how someone teaches by their students, and when NO STUDENTS are in full time major jobs, how can anyone compare him to the great teachers???? insane.......

Link Removed

 

[anthem274]

Childish.

 

[EFischer1]

As far as switching bows is concerned, I would just like to cast my vote for Paul's viewpoint. Its really not that big of a deal. I switched to German about a year ago, simply because my teacher could teach me more about german bow than french. When I started studying with my teacher, whose approach to music and to the bass I believe in very deeply, I felt that my french bow playing was at a great level. I had studied french bow with the likes of Homer Mensch, Ed Barker, etc. I feel that at this point, only a year later, my german bow playing has surpassed what my french bow playign was a year ago.

So i suppose the message is simmer down and go practice. If you do, maybe someday you will win a full-time job and prove that you didn't do it by studying with Mr. Quarrington or Mr. Levinson, both of whom have pretty darn good full-time jobs already...

 

[Justin K-ski]

I study with Mr. Levinson and it's true, he is very particular about the way he feels the bass should be played. However, this is not an issue of ego. He truly believes that the way of playing he has developed is the most efficient way of playing. I agree with him, I feel like his technique will help me become the best bass player I can. Who are we to say something that works for another player is right or wrong?

He also has and has had many students playing with a french bow.