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Double Bass German bow teachers-Grad school

#21
I know this is a late post, but I just wanted to brush up on the previous post to iron out any misconceptions regarding teachers in NYC.
I don't think the bad blood between Orin and Levinson is as bad as it was made out to be. Yes, they have their issues, but they do seem to deal with it in a rather professional matter. I've never heard anything of them getting their student involved and I would be interested to see who would say that whether it be a student of Orin or Levinson. I don't have much personal interaction with Levinson, but I could most definitely say Orin would never let such a thing occur.
David Grossman also studied extensively with Homer Mensch and Orin before he studied with Levinson. I see his teaching technique as taking a little bit from all four teachers. He's very meticulous and I personally love studying with him.
Homer never played german bow. He's always been a french bow player. You could study with him regardless but don't think for a second that he'll let you take a lesson with a german bow teacher (this i know from personal experience).
VanDemark is equally proficient playing french and german bow.
Hope this clears things up.
 
#22
BGreaney said:
I know this is a late post, but I just wanted to brush up on the previous post to iron out any misconceptions regarding teachers in NYC.
I don't think the bad blood between Orin and Levinson is as bad as it was made out to be. Yes, they have their issues, but they do seem to deal with it in a rather professional matter. I've never heard anything of them getting their student involved and I would be interested to see who would say that whether it be a student of Orin or Levinson. I don't have much personal interaction with Levinson, but I could most definitely say Orin would never let such a thing occur.
David Grossman also studied extensively with Homer Mensch and Orin before he studied with Levinson. I see his teaching technique as taking a little bit from all four teachers. He's very meticulous and I personally love studying with him.
Homer never played german bow. He's always been a french bow player. You could study with him regardless but don't think for a second that he'll let you take a lesson with a german bow teacher (this i know from personal experience).
VanDemark is equally proficient playing french and german bow.
Hope this clears things up.
Click to expand...

+1. I think it's pretty safe to say that someone who has attained the level that Mrs. O'Brien and Mr. Levinson have, will know how to handle professional disagreements.

Look, unless you compared a teacher to his student, you will never find two people who completely agree upon the best possible way to play the double bass. I'm sure Mr. Bransby and Mr. Hurst have their disagreements as do Ellison and Pitts. I think Orin and Levinsons relationship is blow out of proportion because they work together. I have never met Mrs. O'brien but I will say that Mr. Levinson is an absolute professionalon stage and in the studio. He is very strong minded about his techniques but even so he would NEVER allow his personal feelings about someone hinder the education of one of his students.
 
#23
All this is really odd to me. When I went to Juilliard in 1992, Levinson and O'brien were best buddies. O'Brien almost acted as Levinson assistant. After a couple of years of work, she would tell her students that it was time for them to study with Levinson because he had more to offer than she. They were a real team, and it was great for the students.
I am sad to see that things have changed for the worse.

As far as Levinson goes, I agree that he is an incredible professional, but if you have small hands or a tendency for tendinitis I would not recommend going to him. His scale fingerings were brutal to my hands, lots of 3rd finger in the lower positions (with extensions).

Back to the teacher recommendation, Horst-Dieter Wenkel in Weimar-Germany. Free tuition, cheap cost of living, and the best teacher in Germany. His students are:
-Principal in NDR Hamburg
-Both principals and one section player in Gewandhaus-Leipzig
-Both principals in the Dresden Staatskapelle (the best opera house in Germany)
-the list goes on and on

Warning, he is a psychopath. None of this nice north-american sweet/polite/understanding stuff. I had to leave after a year because of this, but I am a softie.
 
#24
I've seen some professional musicians act pretty childish at times. Maybe I've heard worse things than you two, but I've heard some bad things about the two that include some pretty serious charges. I don't want to say anything that might not be true so I'll refrain from doing so but I've heard about all of this from many sources with the same experiences happening mulitple times so there is obviously something going on between the two.

I agree about Levinson's fingering system. While I think that third finger usage opens up great posibilities and could be the future standard fingering for bass players, it doesn't feel too great for me because I have horrible double jointedness, especially in my third finger which means that the tip of my third finger on both hands is continually pointed upwards. At the angle my hand comes in on lower positions it causes the finger to collapse. It's fine for positions above the octave harmonic, but it doesn't work for me in lower positions. That's just me. If you have normal hands I think that it's worth checking out.

Mensch's german bow is very convincing if you've seen it in action, even if he's always been french.

Mr. VanDemark is an excellent teacher and an amazing bass player. I recommend him highly. He was incredibly nice and helpful when I visited Eastman. His studio is large being the only teacher at Eastman (which includes, I believe, more than 20 students), but I doubt that means he's less one on one with his students because it seems like he spends a lot of effort teaching his students. He mentioned to me that he's had assistants, but they don't often teach students.
 
#25
I would be very interested to hear some of your stories if we may ever cross paths in NYC.

Unfortunately I'm too young to have ever really seen Mr. Mensch play period. The only opportunity I've had was in watching some of the Bernstein young person concerts and that's of course only for a few seconds at best if they used a shot of the section. I saw him hacking away on open strings before a lesson a few years ago. From that little display I could tell you most definitely that at that time, he hadn't lost much in his right hand.

One comment regarding VanDemark. In studying with him over the summer, the only thing that struck me as a negative is that he's not as strong with orchestral excerpts as the teachers that are in orchestras. Something you might strongly consider if you're thinking about Eastman.
 
#27
Do you guys know anything about Tim Cobb as teacher?

I heard that he was pretty dogmatic (like Levinson), that you had to use his fingerings etc....

I studied mostly with the late David Walter, a fantastic teacher and a better man yet. He used to give us a good amount of freedom. I am looking for a great orchestral coach in NYC, but it can't be a dictator. I have had enough of those.

Cheers
 
#28
No one at MSM has ever complained about Mr. Cobb being dogmatic with his fingerings. I don't know if it's just cuz they use them and don't complain or if its cuz he's not really that insistant. I really think you can't go wrong with studying with him though.
In regards to that though, my friend was studying abroad last year in Stuttgart, Germany with Matthias Weber and I think he put it best. "You know, I don't care if you use my fingerings or not, but I already have a job and you don't."
 
#29
There is some truth to that for sure.
I am just wary at first because of my tendinitis history. Levinson will not accept anything but his fingerings even if they brake your hands (happened to a friend of mine). People like the late Stuart Sankey would actually help you find the fingering that was best for your particular hand, bass, body etc...

Have you worked with Leigh Mesch?
 
#30
Oh no it's defintiely not like Mr. Levinson's style in that respect, I can assure you of that.
Most of Tim's students here have taken lessons with Leigh. From what I've heard from them, he's a great teacher. I've heard that he sometimes very blunt with his comments and you can guarantee he's tell you exactly how he feels about your playing...my kind of guy. Are you french or german bow?
 
#31
That sounds great what you say about Leigh.

I am a German bow player, but (not wanting to sound arrogant) I don't really need a german bow teacher anymore. I just need a good orchestral teacher.

How is the scholarship situation at MSM?
 
#34
IU's School of Music also just got a huge donation. After the matching gifts, there will be $40 million dollars endowing graduate fellowships and $20 million endowing undergrad scholarships starting next year. Things will get even more competitive, but the money is there to be had.
 
#36
BGreaney said:
No one at MSM has ever complained about Mr. Cobb being dogmatic with his fingerings. I don't know if it's just cuz they use them and don't complain or if its cuz he's not really that insistant. I really think you can't go wrong with studying with him though.
In regards to that though, my friend was studying abroad last year in Stuttgart, Germany with Matthias Weber and I think he put it best. "You know, I don't care if you use my fingerings or not, but I already have a job and you don't."
Click to expand...

Tim Cobb is a firm believer and user of the French Bow.
 
#39
Mr. Quarrington is going to start playing next fall in Ottawa but he is still playing as principal bass in the Toronto Symphony and he will continue to teach his full class at the Royal Conservatory in Toronto while working in Ottawa. He told me that that he will take some students at McGill in Montreal as well!
I was fortunate enough to have him as a teacher ten years ago and I wouldn't hesitate to suggest to anyone playing either bow (or any tuning) to go study with him.
I went to two of his students recitals last year and they sounded totally awesome!
 
#40
DonQuartz said:
Mr. Quarrington is going to start playing next fall in Ottawa but he is still playing as principal bass in the Toronto Symphony and he will continue to teach his full class at the Royal Conservatory in Toronto while working in Ottawa. He told me that that he will take some students at McGill in Montreal as well!
I was fortunate enough to have him as a teacher ten years ago and I wouldn't hesitate to suggest to anyone playing either bow (or any tuning) to go study with him.
I went to two of his students recitals last year and they sounded totally awesome!
Click to expand...

He is currently still Principal yes, but I believe they're auditioning for a new principal spot for the next season for the TSO.
 

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