• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass German bow teachers-Grad school

#61
beerandbass said:
...when NO STUDENTS are in full time major jobs, how can anyone compare him to the great teachers???? insane...
Click to expand...

Joel Quarrington may be the best bass player and teacher in the orchestral world, but that is only part of the equation. The student must be dedicated, talented, and capable as well.

In fact, I'd say personally that the student is about 75% of the equation here and a teacher shouldn't have to be burdened with transformative powers of the kind you accuse Quarrington of lacking.

There's just not a whole lot of secrets regarding good bass playing. I'd instead argue that if Quarrington's students don't reflect the sort of status one attributes to, say, Levinson, then it's because he's doesn't have the same students with the same goals and advantages. Somebody like Levinson or Ellison are going to have demand for their attention to score an orchestra job, likely more than many other teachers besides Quarrington. What does that mean? It means these guys have a greater likelihood of choosing extremely talented students with a good shot at orchestra jobs no matter who they study with.

Furthermore, Quarrington's more unorthodox way of playing will likely attract students who are more of the unorthodox persuasion. Maybe they don't really want to be in the NY Phil...or maybe they have other goals, like composition or some other focus, but they want to learn from a great player with great technique and musical expression regardless?
 
#62
no one still hasn't proved me wrong. the comment that he and levison have great jobs, that was never in question, all i brought up was he's an overrated teacher.......

and how

1. how many students has he fully taught and have moved on to major orchestras? none

2. playing 5ths doesn't work in the orchestral world. im not sure how you can prove me wrong, but how many pro's play in 5ths? little to none

3. joel's method's of forcing students to change their tuning or bow is sign that his teaching skills are limited...
- now you could just argue he plays and can teach better with the german bow, but then i'll have to say go back to my first point, if he's REALLY that good, why doesn't he have 1 successful student in the orchestra world.....

i will give you johnny L that his unorthodox methods would attract those type of players, but this thread is asking about who are the best german bow teachers (not players) and i am merely saying that you cannot put joel's name in the real teachers......

"You don't have to have students in many professional orchestras to be a great teacher"

i would agree with this if we were in high school, and this teacher is good at certain aspects at the bass. However this thread is asking about grad schools...so it's safe to say that grad school's is for the best player's out there without jobs looking to tighten up their playing in order to get a orchestral job.......... so cory should joel use this quote i took from you as a marketing tool to wherever he teaches??

everyone can disagree with me that's fine, im not sure what's the fuss about with having someone with a different opinion....

and before anyone question's what i say, please read my 3 points and prove me wrong............
 
#63
beerandbass said:
everyone can disagree with me that's fine, im not sure what's the fuss about with having someone with a different opinion....
Click to expand...

If you want to bust Joel Quarrington's chops on a public forum, then please muster the testicular fortitude to sign your name to it. So far, all I see is anonymous blather from a new member with an empty profile and dubious grammatical skills. As such, it looks like simple flamebait to me.

I would suggest that everyone consider the source before giving any credence to this person's posts as they stand at the moment.
 
#64
1) As the original poster (read: asker of the question), I have already stated that landing a major orchestral gig, in my opinion, is far from the the only pinnacle of primarily arco bassit's career. Therefore, your opinions re: Mr. Quarrington may be valid, but you are not doing anything to answer my question.

2) People (mainly me, as I cannot speak for the other participants) would be more likely to see your statements as having some validity should you fill out your profile. I seem to recall a recent thread or two getting derailed by anonymous mud-slinging by very unqualified people. If you feel so strongly, at least be responsible enough to let us know more about you.

3) I am still open to suggestions as I have a DMA to consider once I am done with this MM. I should reiterate: I am primarily looking for a school in the Midwest or the East coast, North of the Mason-Dixon line (but in the States, ruling out Mr. Quarrington). It also needs to have a strong Assistantship/Fellowship program (ruling out CIM - though I don't think they have any German teachers now). I am happily married and would like to keep it that way, which means compromising to find a mutually acceptable location and not putting us in a bad financial situation.

Thank who have contributed positively to this thread.
 
#65
Matt, has anyone on this thread suggested Paul Ellison at Rice yet? I know he's a french player, but he really does know how to teach German bow. His studio is arguably one of the best in the world, as is the Rice orchestra. He's had several very successful German bow students, including David Moore of the LA Philharmonic.

However, the Rice DMA program for bass is very difficult to enter in to, and as far as I'm aware only one person has ever done it. Still, if you're interested, you could take a look at [Invalid or Expired Link Removed].
 
#66
beerandbass said:
i will give you johnny L that his unorthodox methods would attract those type of players, but this thread is asking about who are the best german bow teachers (not players) and i am merely saying that you cannot put joel's name in the real teachers...
Click to expand...

Hey beerandbass,

You still can't have it both ways. You can't argue the competence of a teacher on the career success of his students while taking away consideration of the students themselves...their own personal talents and intentions.

If you do understand why this doesn't work and don't care, then you are cruel.

It's like blaming your car stereo for intonation mistakes in your own playing, and then demanding a new stereo to fix the problem you know.
 
#73
Ellison gave a master class here at UofL last year that I caught a part of. Even though I'm not an arco player, I was very impressed with his whole approach, which emphasized using the trunk of the body to produce sound rather than the extremities. After only a few minutes, most students were pulling a consistently stronger and fuller sound. He was also excellent with his bedside manner, and made everyone in the room feel at home.
 
#75
Chris Fitzgerald said:
...I was very impressed with his whole approach, which emphasized using the trunk of the body to produce sound rather than the extremities. After only a few minutes, most students were pulling a consistently stronger and fuller sound.
Click to expand...

I don't know how common that technique is, but it was what my new German bow teacher, Diana Gannett at the University of Michigan, taught me at my first lesson with her. And I can vouch for what a tremendous difference it makes!

I'm not qualified to talk about Ms. Gannett's place in the cosmos of bass teachers, but I believe she's very well respected, and I have so far found her to be a wonderful teacher.

Invalid Link Removed
 
#77
every time i have seen paul ellison, either giving a masterclass or performing, i have been very impressed. i believe that is correct about starting on german...i have heard that as well, and then he learned french when studying with rabbath. his current bow (last time i saw him anyways) is a hybrid bow designed by grunberger which has a frog between the size of french and german. he can play it both grips and sound great either way. i also seem to remember hearing that sandor learned both bow grips with him when earning his DMA...does anyone know if he has master's students become familiar with both grips as well? enjoy your time with him, paul (cannon). he has an endless amount of knowledge about music and the bass.
 
#78
Chris Fitzgerald said:
He was also excellent with his bedside manner, and made everyone in the room feel at home.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The guy's a monster player but he's so encouraging to bassists of any skill and age. How cool is that?

The first time I ever saw him play (around 3 or 4 years ago), he was doing a little tribute to Ray Brown and talked about being very inspired by Ray's playing when he was younger. That's also the first time I ever heard of Ray Brown.
 
#79
beerandbass said:
1. how many students has he fully taught and have moved on to major orchestras? none

2. playing 5ths doesn't work in the orchestral world. im not sure how you can prove me wrong, but how many pro's play in 5ths? little to none

3. joel's method's of forcing students to change their tuning or bow is sign that his teaching skills are limited...
- now you could just argue he plays and can teach better with the german bow, but then i'll have to say go back to my first point, if he's REALLY that good, why doesn't he have 1 successful student in the orchestra world.....
Click to expand...

You know it saddens me to know that people are being fed this BS about Joel. It's completely reactionary, and only impedes the developement of the instrument. If your teacher taught you to hate others like this, or you and your buddies think your hot or something, you should be ashamed of yourself.

About the points you brought up, I have to say your completely off!

It's true that Joel doesn't have as many big shot students like other american pedagogues, but take into consideration that unlike someone like Bruce Bransby, he usually has about 4 or 5 students. (If we look at the number of unemployed bassists Bruce Bransby has produced, we'd think differently of all this). But having studied with Joel, I can guarantee that there is nobody who cares more about their students than he does and gives them more time or energy. Joel is a true teacher in that he doesn't teach you only about bass for an hour a week, but is a true mentor for the rest of your life. I sincerely believe this, and nothing anyone says can contradict that for me.

And he doesn't have one successful student in the orchestra world? What? Do you live in Canada? Sure not everyone does they're undergrad with Joel, but everyone who studies with him views it has one of if not the most profound learning experiences of their lives. I know Jeff White claims that he learnt way more in his few summers and NYO than his undergrad at IU, with its great reputation and all.

The idea that fifths doesn't work in an orchestra just because it's so rare is also completely wrong. I don't know if you've noticed but when you're playing Beethoven, there's a larger, more musical and in tune section called the cellos that's playing your part in fifths too. How's that for blending? I mean have you ever actually tried a bass in fifths for more than a week? You'd never go back.

Joel doesn't force anyone to switch anything! Knowing Joel better than probably all of you on this board, I have to say this really came from nowhere, and is completely opposite to his character. Some of his best students are french bow players in fourths! His students these days play in fifths more and more because they're starting to see other students doing it with great success, since it kicks ass.

So,
1. You're wrong about this. Players in just about every Canadian orchestra have studied with Joel.
2. You've obviously never heard Joel lead a bass section if you think it doesn't work in orchestra (or you know nothing about music)
3. No student of Joel's--I can absolutely guarantee you--has ever been forced into another tuning or bow.

Get you facts straight before trying to dismiss an alternate school of playing, and an amazing man.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back