• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Get off my LAWN! "Grumpy Old Farts"

Status
Not open for further replies.
#7,842
OK, one more for Al, fellow A-4 fan:

Thai-Malay-Det1986.jpg



We deployed annually to Malaysia and Thailand. The squadron next door, VRC-50, would give the chase crew a lift in a small passenger jet they had. Upon reaching destination, we would do what was referred to as a "carrier break." In succession each bird would roll 90 deg onto it's side, then the pilot would pull the stick back to break away from the pack and land. I did this several times in the VRC-50 jet, once in a C-2, which was quite disturbing.

ThaiMalayDet1986break.jpg


For anyone wondering, those are not munitions loaded on the wing stations. They are external fuel stores, AKA drop tanks. Probably 1000 or 1500 Lb stores (each).

scan0015.jpg

Bonus pic for Al Kraft, fellow A-4 fan, I am fairly sure the is my first and last division officer, Lt. Steiniker, in 07 pre-cammy bla gray paint. First and last, not because I got kicked out, but he was my DO in the line shack upon arrival, then returned to the squadron before by departure and was assigned to AV/WEPS DO. Good guy. Next pic shows his trust in us, the ground crew, as well as what happens when an Lt. is the OIC of a deployment in a pretty unregulated Asian country.

scan0016.jpg

Gear up at 10 ft, you can see the nose gear cover hasn't closed. He started a steep assent, did a nice roll and came out just a bit crooked. I think he must have pulled the gear up as soon as the weight on wheels (WOW) light went off. He was quite the stick.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 12BitSlab, RandM, agedhorse and 2 others
#7,846
ric426 said:
I can only speak for myself, but I've loved planes and all things aviation related all my life, so I welcome this stuff. Plus I like hearing about significant parts of folks personal history with aviation. I don't recall the T-28 Trojan, so I enjoyed being (re)introduced to it. Can't wait until my grandson is old enough to appreciate a trip to the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson! I made sure I got to be the one to turn him onto planes and he's pretty enthusiastic about them. No matter what he's doing, if he hears a plane he drops everything to watch it.

My dad was a hydraulic engineer with Vickers and in the early '60's we moved to Switzerland for a couple years while he worked on some special project with a lot of time in England as well. I remember him telling me about VTOL aircraft and the things that were being developed for it. We found out much later that he was involved in the R&D for what was to become the Harrier. In the last part of his life he lived in Fond Du Lac WI, where the national aerobatics competitions were held a mile from his house and a short drive to Oshkosh where the EAA fly-in is held every year. I got to go to it with him a year or two before he died. I'm glad we got to share that.
Click to expand...

That's very cool. I'm glad you have such fond memories of your father. IMO many of us have forgotten how important it is to know our roots. Our heritage and family history. It really needs to be written down and passed down to the future generations, I think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft
#7,848
ric426 said:
Hey, if we pool our money and can come up with $330,000, we can buy enough T-28's airframes and parts to piece together enough for our own GOF squadron!
Invalid Link Removed

If I borrow $5 from my wife, I can chip in $5.78
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed

One of these went up for auction locally. Sold for $60K. I was soooo pissed off! My brother, me and "Ron" his flight instructor some 30 + years ago could have easily came up with $20 K each. Plus it came with a dissembled, but thought complete chip. Doh! The only caveat with these, is they actually had a 12 ga. "blank" shell starting system, so it costs $4 for each attempt to start it. However, this one had been converted... besides, at $4 a pop, I think my brother could prop it while I sit inside and try to start it. NOT... I'm the junior man and it would be me propping it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ric426
#7,851
Ken Morgan said:
Much more mature?

Dude...we spent 3 pages on fart jokes. Never underestimate the childishness of over 60 bass clef bozos
Click to expand...
Ken, good man, roll the film back a bit. I didn't or just barely participated in any of the fart lighting foolishness. I was busy cleaning up after a, mmm, let's say a misfire. If you will recall sir, I had no comments about lighting of one's tail pipe. Well, other than the youtube of the dope lighting a bottle rocket out of his ass, but I assure you that was an anomaly and out of Character.

Come to think of it, I have no character. So.... never mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ric426 and Stumbo
#7,852
A couple ground pounder shots, since you GOFs seem to like the pics:

TA4J-Launch-Thailand1985.jpg


TA-4J launch in Thailand. Note the red star on the pilots helmet. We were the adversary squadron (AKA skeet for the fleet).

A4Ew11DetThai1986.jpg

Launching 11 in Thailand. The Mechy QA, Mike to the right looks concerned. Note the panel behind the intake is open... probably a hydraulic leak. Everyone is "out of uniform." Pretty typical of NAVAIR... no one really cared about anything but quality and making the flight schedule.
PC-SmittyOnHuffer-Thailand1985.jpg
I remember this guy... Plain Captain, "Smitty," gives the pilot a thumbs up as he applies a massive amount of air from the "huffer." The A-4 lacked self-starting capability, until the last revision, the Marine A-4M. So it required a puff of air from a huffer (a small jet engine on wheels) and a generator, IME an NC-8, providing 3 phase 120 VAC + 24 VDC.

@Al Kraft ever seen a huffer hose on the loose? They claim it can't happen, but I've seen it. "Tatoo" (as in fantasy island) held onto one until we git the huffer shut off!
 
#7,853
BadExample said:
ever seen a huffer hose on the loose? They claim it can't happen, but I've seen it. "Tatoo" (as in fantasy island) held onto one until we git the huffer shut off!
Click to expand...
My very first assignment at NAVAIR in the 70's was as the engineer responsible for all Fleet air-start equipment including the installed systems on Kennedy and America (with like 60 foot hoses IIRC). The A-4 used the GTC85 based unit (3.6:1 pressure ratio and 120 Lb's/min flow I think). It could also use the GTC100 based unit with "low flow" selected. Only the Navy F-4 required the higher pressure ratio and flow rate (5:1 and around 200 lbs/min), because it didn't have an air turbine starter. That was part of the weight it had to lose to get margin for the landing gear beef-up from the Air Force version. The J-79 in the Navy Phantoms were an impingement start arrangement (windmilled) with air blown over the turbine blades.

Do you recall the air-start pod that looked like a drop tank and you could take it with you to fields that didn't have a huffer? I think the Blues used them until they transitioned out of the A-4's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ric426
#7,854
I saw the equivalent hose on a ~150psi, high cfm air compressor come apart... untrained college student crew guy unlatched it but it's not supppsed to release under pressure. Took a huge chunk of solid maple floor out and just grazed his head. He's lucky to be alive. OSHA was very interested.
 
#7,855
agedhorse said:
I saw the equivalent hose on a ~150psi, high cfm air compressor come apart... untrained college student crew guy unlatched it but it's not supppsed to release under pressure. Took a huge chunk of solid maple floor out and just grazed his head. He's lucky to be alive. OSHA was very interested.
Click to expand...
The worst problem I've ever seen on the flight line is 3000-5000 PSI hydraulic oil leaks with human flesh in the immediate vicinity.
 
#7,856
Al Kraft said:
The worst problem I've ever seen on the flight line is 3000-5000 PSI hydraulic oil leaks with human flesh in the immediate vicinity.
Click to expand...

Ewww, hydraulic injection. Nasty stuff. Hate to think what having hydraulic oil slice into flesh would do. I would think that a jet of oil under that much pressure could mangle a limb in an instant if not sever it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: agedhorse and BadExample
#7,857
Al Kraft said:
Do you recall the air-start pod that looked like a drop tank and you could take it with you to fields that didn't have a huffer? I think the Blues used them until they transitioned out of the A-4's.
Click to expand...

I never saw or used those. I was a qualified Plain Captain, but we always had the tiny jet engine on wheels, AKA huffer. I saw the coupler fail once, at the A4 end, and Thank God (A), Tatoo had the hose in hand (he was 5 ft maybe and all muscle), plus Thank God (B) that the CHICK running the huffer cut it off while I stood there all jaw dropped :D Tatoo, an electrician, was maybe 5 ft tall, but a serious wad of muscle. I clearly remember him holding the huffer hose, pointed up, and stepping around trying not to fall. Then the heroic CHICK cut off the huffer as I stood there doing nothing.

agedhorse said:
I saw the equivalent hose on a ~150psi, high cfm air compressor come apart
Click to expand...

I've never seen a huffer hose flopping around on it's own and don't really want to. I think the enbd weighs 10 or 20 pounds... sure feels like it. I always heard if one got loose it would kill everyone it can.

Al Kraft said:
The worst problem I've ever seen on the flight line is 3000-5000 PSI hydraulic oil leaks with human flesh in the immediate vicinity.
Click to expand...

That is a very serious risk of NAVAIR. I've seen some pretty messed up hands. That kind of pressure makes a band saw seem like a Girl Scout toy. The worst I saw though, aside from head to toe 3rd degree burns that is, was my neighbor and friend, Terry, had his arm in the center station bomb rack and some one was up on the wing... as you might guess, the fuel load shifted, and the entire weight of the A-4 and it's fuel load came down on him and Terry's arm came out shaped like the bomb rack. NAVAIR is not for sissies... serious biz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stumbo, Al Kraft, ric426 and 1 other person
#7,858
ric426 said:
Ewww, hydraulic injection. Nasty stuff. Hate to think what having hydraulic oil slice into flesh would do. I would think that a jet of oil under that much pressure could mangle a limb in an instant if not sever it.
Click to expand...
It's amazing how dangerous it is if you're close to the connection (like a hand on it) when it fails. I know that some construction and logging equipment uses high pressure hydraulic fluid systems and even a quick penetration injury that only feels like a pin prick can rapidly progress to a serious problem if not immediately looked at and appropriately treated by a doctor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BadExample and ric426
#7,860
agedhorse said:
So. there's spent the last hour reading up on GTE starting and ignition systems... it's all your fault!
Click to expand...
So aren't you sorry now you chose to become a world famous premier equipment designer and electrical engineering guru instead of taking the ever so slightly less glamorous road of making 10 pound aviation problems fit into 5 pound solution bags? :rollno:

EDIT - to correct extraneous words somehow added when the system went down for maintenance as I was making post.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: agedhorse and BadExample
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back