Get off my LAWN! "Grumpy Old Farts"

[GonePlaid]

A good friend survived the fire on Big E. He was on the flight deck when the accident occurred. I think I may be the only person who he has ever talked about it with, and when I see him break out the cruise book I know it's going to be an emotional time. IIRC the JAGMAN investigation concluded that huffer exhaust impinged on and cooked off a Zuni rocket in pod that was mounted on a Phantom wing. After that it was just a matter of secondary explosions and jet fuel making a bad day worse.

I had the honor of spending a few weeks on the 59 back in the late 70's. No one ever forgot the 65's fire or the one on Forrestal in 1967. In fact the mandatory safety INDOC when I came aboard included watching the films to impress upon folks the importance of getting to your assigned GQ station quickly and that damage control and fire fighting tenacity may be what saves the ship.

The Enterprise name is going to be resurrected with the third of the Ford class (our latest) carriers. Last I heard her launch date will be in the late 2020 time frame. One of my best jobs working for the Navy was leading the aviation team who worked with the NAVSEA naval architecture team doing the conceptual design work in 1997-2001 on what was first CVX, then CVNX, and finally became the Ford class. It's our first new carrier design since the Nimitz class and incorporates technologies and capabilities that should easily take us through this century.

Yes, I hope I'm still around to see the launch. I wish there was a way to preserve 65, but from what I've heard, she was built around the reactor and there's no practical way to remove it. I'd also heard that there was an effort to save the island. IDK if that's still being talked about or not.

 

[Al Kraft]

Yes, I hope I'm still around to see the launch. I wish there was a way to preserve 65, but from what I've heard, she was built around the reactor and there's no practical way to remove it. I'd also heard that there was an effort to save the island. IDK if that's still being talked about or not.

The exact fate of the Big E was still on hold last I heard or read anything from NAVSEA (2017 time frame). The original unique island silhouette with the SCANFAR (the first phased array RADAR deployed on a Navy ship) has been gone since the 80's IIRC. The Enterprise was a ship class of one and was to the best of my knowledge (for many reasons mostly naval architecture related) the fastest carrier. It's design dated to the 1950's and it had 8 reactors similar to the submarine reactors and they needed fueling more often than later more powerful naval reactor designs. The cruiser Long Beach was the Navy's first nuclear surface ship (commissioned late 1961) and had many similarities with the Enterprise including the SCANFAR system. The significance of the SCANFAR system was that it led the way for the AN/SPY-1 phased array systems used today on Aegis equipped ships.

The CV 66 and 67 (America and Kennedy) were going to be Enterprise class nukes, but became Kitty Hawk class ships dues to cost and politics. They were the last two conventionally powered aircraft carriers the Navy built. The Kennedy had a number of mods incorporated during construction that actually made it a class of its own, and so the America is often considered the last of the Kitty Hawk class.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Someone that I worked with was a chemical engineer. After he graduated, he was drafted into the navy and sent to Vietnam. In their infinite wisdom, they put him in the boiler room of a ship because he knew something about chemicals. Working in the hot bowels of the ship, he prayed every day that a heat seeking missile wouldn't hit them.

It goes to show that even an innocuous job on a ship is still very dangerous.

Well, I like to think I had the toughest job in the Navy......I played my saxophone, MU3...

 

[GonePlaid]

Someone that I worked with was a chemical engineer. After he graduated, he was drafted into the navy and sent to Vietnam. In their infinite wisdom, they put him in the boiler room of a ship because he knew something about chemicals. Working in the hot bowels of the ship, he prayed every day that a heat seeking missile wouldn't hit them.

It goes to show that even an innocuous job on a ship is still very dangerous.

Hmm. It would be interesting to know if the North Vietnamese ever considered that possibility. I'd never thought of it.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I have no idea about most of what you Sea Dogs were talking about but one thing I can do is to thank you sincerely for your service.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

With highest respect to the sea dogs, I'm a gun bunny.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Hmm. It would be interesting to know if the North Vietnamese ever considered that possibility. I'd never thought of it.

You never know. They had support for their limited range torpedo boats and MIG’s. A lot hasn’t been released on the NV navy and air force in action.


An interesting read:
First-Hand:The Naval Tactical Data System in Combat - Chapter 7 of the Story of the Naval Tactical Data System - Engineering and Technology History Wiki

 

[BadExample]

You never know. They had support for their limited range torpedo boats and MIG’s. A lot hasn’t been released on the NV navy and air force in action.


An interesting read:
First-Hand:The Naval Tactical Data System in Combat - Chapter 7 of the Story of the Naval Tactical Data System - Engineering and Technology History Wiki

That is interesting! I like that the air support was provided by a Crusader (F-8):

I always thought it was interesting for its tilt back wing for more lift and provides a bonus speed brake (the read area, part of the wing assembly over the fuselage).

As I understand and recall, the NV Air Force was quickly obliterated, so maybe that's why there isn't so much out there about NVAF. As far as their Navy, probably the same for any ships they may have owned (did they?), but I'd guess the smaller boats were more plentiful, and persisted like assgnats.

 

[GonePlaid]

You never know. They had support for their limited range torpedo boats and MIG’s. A lot hasn’t been released on the NV navy and air force in action.


An interesting read:
First-Hand:The Naval Tactical Data System in Combat - Chapter 7 of the Story of the Naval Tactical Data System - Engineering and Technology History Wiki

Wow! I had no idea of this stuff going on. Much of it took place after I was back stateside.

 

[GonePlaid]

Wow! I had no idea of this stuff going on. Much of it took place after I was back stateside.

Another side story: while our band was in San Diego between cruises, we were sent to a Navy air base(China Lake?)for the official acceptance ceremony of the A-7 Corsair II.

 

[BadExample]

Wow! I had no idea of this stuff going on. Much of it took place after I was back stateside.

Did you make it to Cubi/Subic as well as Cebu? Cebu was great when I sent there in the 80's, but I hear it's a mess now. Expats still go and live there, but the crime rate and violence is way up.

 

[GonePlaid]

Did you make it to Cubi/Subic as well as Cebu? Cebu was great when I sent there in the 80's, but I hear it's a mess now. Expats still go and live there, but the crime rate and violence is way up.

Oh, yeah, Everybody gets to "Pubic" Bay. We were there about 6-8 times during 2 cruises.

 

[GonePlaid]

Oh, yeah, Everybody gets to "Pubic" Bay. We were there about 6-8 times during 2 cruises.

Navy enlisted men's ratings badges show what their job is. As a musician, ours was a lyre-which we referred to as a toilet seat w/ strainer. Anyway, anyone familiar with the Navy insignia could tell immediately whether you were in an information-sensitive line of work. No one would figure a musician to have any classified knowledge. Bands are assigned to division commanders("flags"). On the Enterprise we were attached to Commander Carrier Division 1. The Admiral in command said he didn't just want a bunch of"flute tooters"(his words), so we all had to get clearances to be able to stand watch around classified material. So, here I am, a lowly enlisted sax man, with a "Final Top Secret" clearance, privy to information that some pretty high ranking officers weren't allowed to access. I guess my little lyre kept me from ever being kidnapped-which did occasionally happen over there.

 

[Al Kraft]

Someone that I worked with was a chemical engineer. After he graduated, he was drafted into the navy and sent to Vietnam. In their infinite wisdom, they put him in the boiler room of a ship because he knew something about chemicals. Working in the hot bowels of the ship, he prayed every day that a heat seeking missile wouldn't hit them.

It goes to show that even an innocuous job on a ship is still very dangerous.

Actually having a real chemical engineer to help with feed-water quality and fuel quality testing/control would have been very valuable. As for heat signature or other anti-ship missile attacks, other than "Brown Water Navy" boats which took all manner of poundings from spears to bullets to rockets, I'm not sure the enemy had any serious capability of any type to engage larger Navy vessels at the stand-off distances they typically operated at.

 

[rust_preacher]

Responding to roll call. Wife bought tickets to see Popeda. a local national act who celebrated their 40 years on the road by staging a concert at the town main sports arena, 28 000 listeners. 2,5 hours was a bit long for their typical show, and the encores were a bit flat. Today, my guitarist friend who had bought a summer house next to a lake near ours invited us over for coffee, so we took the outboard and went. My fiberglass outboard boat is new to me. I found out my motor won't bend back over toward the boatside. So, back home I changed the 8 hp outboard to a 5 hp one I also had lying around. This will work.

SO. Nothing much, which is good. Link to the Popeda band: Invalid Link Removed

 

[beans-on-toast]

Actually having a real chemical engineer to help with feed-water quality and fuel quality testing/control would have been very valuable. As for heat signature or other anti-ship missile attacks, other than "Brown Water Navy" boats which took all manner of poundings from spears to bullets to rockets, I'm not sure the enemy had any serious capability of any type to engage larger Navy vessels at the stand-off distances they typically operated at.

That’s true. But at the time, this was a kid fresh out of school without any training. There were lots of opportunities to learn in short order in the navy when at war.

We worked together in a company that specialized in industrial water treatment. Providing process monitoring, sample analysis, and treatment. Any increases in efficiency in paper, steel, or petroleum mills for instance amounts to a lot of money. Boilers were part of that.

Large ships can be stationed in international waters, protected and out of range of their navy boats.

 

[beans-on-toast]

BTW, thanks Al for the suggestion of shifting the car transmission into Low to disable the engine shutoff when stopped. I tried it this weekend and it worked like a charm. Running in Low and selecting the highest gear feels no different than running with the vehicle in Drive.

As Andy said, in Low the eco features prooved to be disabled.

It was such a pleasure to be stuck in traffic with the engine shutoff disabled.

Cc: @Al Kraft @agedhorse

 

[beans-on-toast]

Navy enlisted men's ratings badges show what their job is. As a musician, ours was a lyre-which we referred to as a toilet seat w/ strainer. Anyway, anyone familiar with the Navy insignia could tell immediately whether you were in an information-sensitive line of work. No one would figure a musician to have any classified knowledge. Bands are assigned to division commanders("flags"). On the Enterprise we were attached to Commander Carrier Division 1. The Admiral in command said he didn't just want a bunch of"flute tooters"(his words), so we all had to get clearances to be able to stand watch around classified material. So, here I am, a lowly enlisted sax man, with a "Final Top Secret" clearance, privy to information that some pretty high ranking officers weren't allowed to access. I guess my little lyre kept me from ever being kidnapped-which did occasionally happen over there.

Low grades with security clearances provides cover that allows government agencies to place operatives on the ship.

 

[Al Kraft]

BTW, thanks Al for the suggestion of shifting the car transmission into Low to disable the engine shutoff when stopped. I tried it this weekend and it worked like a charm. Running in Low and selecting the highest gear feels no different than running with the vehicle in Drive.

As Andy said, in Low the eco features prooved to be disabled.

It was such a pleasure to be stuck in traffic with the engine shutoff disabled.

Cc: @Al Kraft @agedhorse

Glad that trick worked on your model vehicle. Sometimes the engineers will close loopholes/back-doors like that when they release the next generation software update. In this case though I think they just wanted to make it hard for folks to disable the "feature".

 

[GonePlaid]

Low grades with security clearances provides cover that allows government agencies to place operatives on the ship.

I certainly wasn't an operative. I had enough trouble operating my Sax. Did learn some fascinating behind the scenes stuff, though.