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Double Bass Getting Discouraged

D

David95

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Jul 24, 2011
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#1
Hi there!

This is my first post, I believe. I've been reading for some time, but don't ever remember posting anything. Anyway, here we go!

I am a double bassist in college. I'm not BAD, I mean I am pretty good, but there's no way I'd win a major audition any time soon, you know? I'm in an area where there aren't many bass players, so at my school I'm the go-to-guy. Orchestra, symphonic band, jazz band, musicals, you name it. The experience definitely isn't hurting.

However, it's extremely hard to see myself in the competitive world of orchestral performance, or maybe even performance in general. I've seen far better bassists than me not make the second round of an audition. Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to do the work, but there are LOTS of people that are willing. It is really easy to get into the mindset of "well, that's one more guy who's going to win out over me in auditions" when I see a phenomenal bass player (of course, not in a malicious way, but there's definitely that competitive element there).

I know what I need to do to get to that level, and needless to say I am putting in the effort and am definitely making progress, but it is still easy to get discouraged when seeing how competitive landing a job can be. So, I'd like to know... What do YOU guys/gals do when you get discouraged? What advice might you have for someone who, for lack of a better phrase, seems to be in a musical slump? Obviously hard work is the ultimate solution, but I think what I'm trying to get at here is the mental/emotional side of it.

Thanks,
David
 
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#2
I can't speak for auditions because I just kind of fall into everything that I've done BUT I can speak about being discouraged. I usually get the most discouraged when I hit a wall in my learning. Going a few weeks where you don't feel like you are retaining anything new can take the wind right out of your sails.

All I do is keep on grinding. The constant repetition and tedium sucks but you get better without even realizing it. I couldn't tell you how many times I went through the cycle of fifths backwards and forwards in multiple positions thinking I'd never get it and now it's something I take for granted.

As far as competition..at an audition, I'd ignore them completely. You can't change what or how they play without breaking their fingers so why bother even listening to them? Focus on what you can change. If I'm just listening to a better player, I evaluate what they are doing and what techniques they use that would work for me. Then I try and get better than them. For me, My inferiority complex to better players makes me try harder. The jealousy drives me so to speak.
 
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#3
I'm a hobbyist and certainly not up to the level of a professional who can audition. I can't offer advice in that arena. However the one thing that I will tell you is this:

If you continue to play and see other guys play - there is always going to be some other cat that is better than you. I'll clarify that. I don't mean that you'll never get to the level you aspire to be at. There are always going to be guys with more experience, training, chops, etc. If someone has been at it for longer than you, then it stands to reason they could have a better skill set to work from. That doesn't mean that you aren't progressing, it just means someone may be further along than you. There is no shame in that.

Don't get discouraged by it. Get inspired by it. Watch and listen to the players that you think have a little more than you. Try to pick up something from them, learn a trick or two, or just be inspired by a good performance. Just keep working towards your own goals on DB and control the things you can control.
 
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#4
Read some uplifting words everyday. Self-help, spiritual, etc... anything that help change your perspective.

Have something I can get consumed in where I'm not watched or judged. I had plants, watering them is very therapeutic. Pets are good too.

Spend some time chatting with old folks - they have such good advice, & lots of stories to tell.

Get outside more and connect with nature: walk/swim at beach, hike mountain trails, sit by waters edge, go snow-shoeing, etc.

Learn to unplug & unwind more, and things will start to fall into better perspective.
 
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#5
I am feeling silly as I type this cause I sure don't have any answers and I am no where near orchestral audition level. But I think musical slumps happen to all of us.
Anyway FWIW ... I don't think of music as a competition, I try to embrace all the fantastic music being made by so many people for what it is: good music.
I play guitar as well as bass, and I spent a long time trying play like Joe Pass, and got very frustrated cause my scales never got fast and smooth ... enough. I was fighting the music in my head, trying to mold it into something it was not and it was not working.
The most freeing and inspiring concept came when I realized I shouldn't sound like Joe Pass or anyone for that matter, that I had my own voice all a long. Instead of practicing to sound like someone else (some idea of what a better musician sounds like) practice to feed your voice, build your vocabulary, your thoughts...

I suppose this sounds like jazz and not what is required in the competitive classical world. But I still think the best classical players are not necessarily the one with the most chops.

anyway this guy is pretty inspiring, well worth a watch:
 
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#8
Over the span of the almost six decades I've been alive, I've found that many things "came easily" to me. Math? Easy (up to about second-semester calculus). Languages? Easy. And so on. Things that gave others fits were easy for me. When I tackled the bass, I discovered that not everything came easily to me. This resulted in considerable frustration and discouragement at points. Naturally, I want my playing to rival that of my idols. I've had to accept that that will never happen. Whether that has more to do with lack of innate ability or choices I made (e.g., to have a "career," to have a wife and a house and a mortgage and health insurance and so on) is immaterial. I will work, to the extent I can, to be the best I can. My playing will never be confused for Ray Brown's. But I will play the local gigs that John Clayton and Christian McBride and John Patitucci are too busy to play, and some folks in the audience will enjoy the music, and I will enjoy the music, and that will be enough.
 
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#11
David95 said:
However, it's extremely hard to see myself in the competitive world of orchestral performance, or maybe even performance in general. I've seen far better bassists than me not make the second round of an audition. Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to do the work, but there are LOTS of people that are willing. It is really easy to get into the mindset of "well, that's one more guy who's going to win out over me in auditions" when I see a phenomenal bass player (of course, not in a malicious way, but there's definitely that competitive element there).

I know what I need to do to get to that level, and needless to say I am putting in the effort and am definitely making progress, but it is still easy to get discouraged when seeing how competitive landing a job can be. So, I'd like to know... What do YOU guys/gals do when you get discouraged? What advice might you have for someone who, for lack of a better phrase, seems to be in a musical slump? Obviously hard work is the ultimate solution, but I think what I'm trying to get at here is the mental/emotional side of it.
Click to expand...

Are you not already in the "competitive world of orchestral performance"? Is your school not giving you the training you need?

Part of the deal is that you need to be around the kind of people who win auditions. There is a certain kind of mentality they tend to have which is part of their success. A good bass studio isn't cut throat, it's supportive as hell.

It sounds like you need a few summers at top level festivals. Attend some workshops. And get serious about attending a top rated graduate school.
 
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#12
Wow. Thank you all for the responses. I think the general theme that I'm getting is that in one way or another, a musician's mindset requires work. Something I've never really considered before, but definitely helpful. I'm going to try all of these things when possible, be it telling myself something reassuring or surrounding myself with people of a positive mindset.
 
#14
Paul's point about being at a great school, and doing what you need to do to get there is really what you need to consider if you want to get into "the competitive world of orchestral performance". While it does not tell the whole picture, if you look at the audition winners thread over in Orchetral Auditions, it is pretty easy to notice a pattern of where the winners are coming from. If an orchestra is where you want to be, those are the schools to get you there.

Depending on where you are at now, you might be looking at stepping up your game, doing some of the bigger/better summer festivals, and really applying yourself before grad school auditions. You might be looking at all of that plus a year or two of really intense private study to get you there. It sounds like you aren't at one of the music school now, or even a school with a decent sized music program if you are the go-to guy because there isn't really anyone else. While that can be good and give you a chance to play a lot of different types of music, it can also give you a large dose of big fish, small pond. When I auditioned for music schools I had one school throw a bunch of money at me because I would have been as good or better than who was there already, another school offer me admittance but nothing else, and two schools reject me. I went to the school that didn't offer me a scholarship over the one that wanted to give me a full ride, because it surrounded me with players that were much better than I was, and pushed me to improve myself. I re-auditioned to transfer to one of the better schools that didn't accept me the first time, and sat in the hallway waiting for my audition listening to potential first years playing circles around me. All music degrees are not created equal.

David95 said:
I think the general theme that I'm getting is that in one way or another, a musician's mindset requires work. Something I've never really considered before, but definitely helpful.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of people who are not musicians, and even a lot of musicians that don't realize how much work is involved. Not only do you have to be motivated and dedicated, you have to be more motivated and dedicated than the other 500 bassists that show up for the big auditions. If your goal is a major orchestra seat, they are almost all tenured and rarely open up. When they do, even the pros who are already sitting in some of the top seats in the country/world show up for those auditions. Unless you are studying with the handful of guys at the big bass schools who aren't going anywhere, your teacher might be auditioning for the same seats you want to. It is extremely competitive, and if you aren't willing to absolutely dedicate your life to playing bass, you aren't going to end up in the Berlin Phil, because everyone else who wants to be in that orchestra has been eating, sleeping, and playing bass, with not too much time spent on the first two.

If you are aiming for the really big orchestras, you are essentially trying to become a double bass Olympian. Think about what "Olympian" means to you, and then make it happen.
 
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#15
MikeCanada said:
While that can be good and give you a chance to play a lot of different types of music, it can also give you a large dose of big fish, small pond.
Click to expand...

Everything you said was very true. I faced the same choice, and for the sake of money chose the cheaper option. I've been sure to play on the advantages of a smaller school, but I've also done my best to stay well-connected with others in the community and be an honest judge of my ability. I will be able to get into grad school. The issue is getting into, like you mentioned, one of THE grad schools. I understand the work and dedication that is required, and I think me being discouraged stems from the possibility of me putting in all of the effort (which I am motivated and willing to do) I can and still falling short.

Perhaps my issue is that I'm being too hard on myself? Not in the "I'm better than I give myself credit for" sense, but in the "I'm not cut out for this" part. It just seems as if there's not any good way of telling how much of a difference two years of hard and efficient work will make, if that makes any sense.
 
#16
I think there's a point in posts like this in the past where someone will chime in and say:

You do it because you can't imagine living in any other way. Playing bass is a requirement, not an option.

Or something to that effect. As if there's no choice to be made. And there's so many other skills to develop too: showmanship, audience engagement, marketing, promotion, networking, etc. etc.. There's SO MUCH WORK that is totally NOT directly music related just to be successful (to varying degrees depending on your style of music of course).

I been meditating more and more and came across a phrase (paraphrasing), that you shouldn't view competition as your adversaries. THat path leads to much suffering but it's better that you see them as friends, and like someone else said, find inspiration in them.

I'm certainly not aspiring to be a full time pro but I don't think that matters - the Truth is still undeniable.
 
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#17
Absolutely makes sense. I am assuming you are in America both because you refer to it as college instead of university, and because that's the default assumption here at TalkBass. While I do occasionally look back and wonder what it would be like to not have taken on the expense of the school I attended and the much higher cost of living in comparison to my other option, playing the "what if?" game rarely helps. Tuition in Ontario is the highest in the country and steadily rising in part because of attitudes like "it's still cheaper than America" but it isn't anywhere near what it can be south of the border. I also knew that given the type of person I was and I was coming from a small town and had lived the big fish, small pond lifestyle up until that point, I needed the wake up call/kick in the butt that a bigger school was going to give me. You might be different, and if the faculty at your school are great and you are supplementing that education with summer festivals and other opportunities, you can still learn a lot.

David95 said:
I will be able to get into grad school. The issue is getting into, like you mentioned, one of THE grad schools. I understand the work and dedication that is required, and I think me being discouraged stems from the possibility of me putting in all of the effort (which I am motivated and willing to do) I can and still falling short.
Click to expand...

You are going to get differing opinions on this one, but mine is if you can't get into THE grad schools, then you want to think long and hard about going into music performance at a grad school. Having a Masters degree, especially in something like music performance doesn't open nearly as many doors as it once did in the event that you decide to go in a different direction. You can and will learn a lot going to grad school, and if you play your cards right you should be able to do it much cheaper than your undergrad, but if you are aiming for the big leagues and you can't get into the schools that are consistently pumping out big league players, are you going to be able to compete with them when you come out the other side?

"Falling short" or not quite getting there doesn't mean everything went to waste. If you don't end up in the Met, Berlin, Vienna, London, NYC, Philadelphia, etc. there are still some really great orchestras out there. The orchestras "a step down" from those still pay and play well and are often in cities where cost of living is a little more realistic. If you don't end up there, the "third tier" of orchestras (smaller cities with full time orchestras) still are very musically rewarding, and can be financially as well. Keep in mind if you're worried about putting a roof over your head you can still teach and freelance. Basically, there are many different levels of "making it in classical music" and there is nothing saying that you cannot progress from one to another.

If you really are in the all or nothing boat, then hdiddy said it much more concise than I ever will:

Huy Nguyen said:
You do it because you can't imagine living in any other way. Playing bass is a requirement, not an option.
Click to expand...
 
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#18
MikeCanada said:
Basically, there are many different levels of "making it in classical music" and there is nothing saying that you cannot progress from one to another.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think this has been the best piece of advice offered in this thread so far. For me at least, it's very easy to get caught up in "making it big", and forgetting about the other possibilities. Of course I'll give it everything I have to be as successful as I can be, but like you said, if I don't "make it", there are other options. This honestly gave me more peace of mind as I was reading it than I've had in a while.

Huy Nguyen said:
I been meditating more and more and came across a phrase (paraphrasing), that you shouldn't view competition as your adversaries. THat path leads to much suffering but it's better that you see them as friends, and like someone else said, find inspiration in them.

I'm certainly not aspiring to be a full time pro but I don't think that matters - the Truth is still undeniable.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree. You also made a couple of other very good points, and as a matter of fact, I have been working on my networking/marketing/other aspects as of late. Also, I never have any negative feelings towards better players for being better, it just makes it harder for me to appreciate the level I am at, I suppose. The tricky part is finding the balance between being hard enough on myself to improve and being happy with the things I've accomplished.
 
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