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Getting more 'attack' from a P-Bass

#41
BTW, while I mentioned the pickup before, no question that technique, signal chain, and strings play a huge role in recorded tone. For strings, some fresh rounds would probably help, and many different types will get the job done. For maximum brightness, go with stainless. I'm partial to DR Fat Beams on my current "P," which is a G&L SB-2. It now has some Fodera rounds, which are excellent as well.

I've also found I like some strings more for recording than playing live. For example, I thought the D'Addario XL's that came with my G&L JB were somewhat dull playing live, but IMO they sounded fantastic for recording direct.
 
#42
I'd look at the strings.
Not that pressure wounds and flat wounds sound bad, (they sound friggin' awesome, most times) but that they might not have been the best choice for that session, depending on what the artist and producer were going for.
For example, if you show up with a flat wound P for a chuggy, clanky NuMetal band, it just wouldn't work.
I don't think the P is at fault, really. Just maybe the strings.
 
#43
commonplayer said:
Any thoughts on whether something like an Aguilar Tone Hammer pre would be a useful addition?
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You are making this harder than it needs to be and your doubts about your tone are leading you towards GAS. You felt good enough about your bass' tone to bring it to a recording session, so why try and change the entire character of the instrument just because a producer said you needed a little more punch?

Literally all you have to do is buy some D'addario XLs for 15 bucks and set up your bass. Once you are done with those you can put them back in some packaging in case you need them again and put your beloved pressure wounds back on. You can easily make a custom set that has a similar feel to your pressure wounds also, as both GHS and D'addario publish their tension specs.
 
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#44
Gravedigger Dav said:
^ This + 1
You need to dig in. If you get fret rattle, then your action is too low. Gadgets wont do it. It is technique. Carol Kaye always used flats and a thick pick.
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Agreed, You don't need to buy anything, a p with flats and dig in between pickup and end of fretboard gets me plenty attack. I do use a light compression with the attack set fairly high, but if your studio engineer is any good he should know how to compress your bass to keep it thick without squashing the attack.
 
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#45
Tone is in the fingers. You need harder fingers.

OK, a bit facetious, but there is some truth to it. I have hard callouses, and when I want a good attack, I don't pull on the strings, I strike them (my finger is moving pretty fast before it's touching the string). If I do it near or over the fretboard, I can get a bit of bounce off the frets (that's what the frets above the octave are there for), and I get all the attack I want.

Anyway, I'd agree that a P can have enough attack - between strings, setup, and technique, you can definitely get there with a P.
 
#46
It's a P, so it can't be the bass. LOL. Typically "attack" refers to that first instant the note begins to sound. Like with a compressor, the "attack phase" is that first moment the compressor squashes the note. I associate it with playing harder.
 
#47
I second the roundwound string suggestion.
but if you wish to stay with flats, I would suggest you try Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats. brighter than those pressurewounds, and a little less tension than those Chromes.
 
#49
The only thing other than technique that matters for attack that I've ever experienced is one pole per string pickups vs two pole per string.

The reason Fender went from single pole to double pole when he redesigned the P pickup in the mid-50's was that people were complaining about the attack on the single pole pickups being so strong it was blowing the primitive speakers that were the only thing available at the time. What we would consider guitar speakers now.

Dual coils gave the same overall output level but brought down the attack a little due to how the path of the string interacts with two smaller magnets instead of one big one.

I've recorded with both single coil and split P pickups and there is a difference in attack, both audibly and visually when you zoom in on the waveform for each note.

All that said, OP needed to play harder and closer to the neck. Playing back by the bridge minimizes attack because there is less string excursion there.

Anyone talking about rounds vs flats or adding highs doesn't know what attack is.
 
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#50
I agree with what was said earlier, attack is a playing style, not a "tone" so much. It might be that what they are looking for is a combination of the two, a little more aggression in your playing style and some strings that carry a bit more "grind" than what you are currently using. I would ask the studio tech exactly what they are looking for from you. If they have any experience they should be able to give you a good description that you can formulate some solutions from. Let us know how it goes.
 
#51
I'm going to echo what others have said that you need clarification on "attack" before you do anything else. It can mean different things, and have different solutions. I would try to get ahold of the producer, and say you've been thinking about what he said and want to improve your sound (or at least be more versatile).
 
#53
Attack to me means digging in more. I would try doing that somewhere near the pick up.

Round wound strings might also help, that would be my second step.

Funny that some people say "turn down your volume and dig in harder" while others are saying "turn up your volume and dig in less." Since 'attack' to me means more power/accent at the start of the note, I'm in the dig in harder camp. So whenever I record, I'm careful to set my instruments level in my headphones/monitors lower than my intuition tells me. This let's me make sure to draw enough sound (and attack) out of the strings, and not play too softly. YMMV. Try both ways for the producer, have him turn down your level in your headphones/monitors so you can play digging in harder, then have him crank your bass louder in your phones so you barely touch the strings to get a sound. See if either of those, or something in between works. (You may have to adjust your action higher if you get too much fret buzz from digging in more.)

There's also the chance that your producer is just plain wrong. Please share a sample of this recording so we can hear what you and him are hearing, and so we can further judge and preach. :angel:
 
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#54
lz4005 said:
Anyone talking about rounds vs flats or adding highs doesn't know what attack is.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Your technique definitely plays the biggest role in whether or not you have an attacking style, but all the technique in the world will not give you what you need on a modern rock session if you show up with nylon tapewounds and roll your tone down.

Also chances are mr. producer is not a bass player. When he says "attack" I'd be willing to bet he is trying to say he wants a more aggressive tone. OP is using a brand of groundwound strings that in my experience have a somewhat subdued true mid/high mid range and also a slightly muted top end once they break in.
 
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#55
Depending on how fast and busy the basslines are, another possible fix would be: play downstrokes only. Not only will this help you naturally play harder (without having to be constantly thinking "I am playing harder!", if that makes sense), but I've found that "resetting" my right hand before each note makes them feel more attack-y, maybe even pushing the beat a tiny bit, vs. lagging or sitting right on the beat with a fluid up-down-up-down motion?

Disclaimer: I don't really "like" playing this way and I definitely wouldn't do it for parts that are fast or complicated. But, it really does sound more aggressive which might be what you need here.
 
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#56
commonplayer said:
I'm primarily a P-bass player, and I love the idea of keeping things simple - one bass, two knobs. But a few recent studio experiences have me wondering if I need to augment my situation in some way. I'm also not a studio guy, just showed up to record some tracks for a friend, so I'm not expert in how it all goes.

In the past year, I recorded two separate tracks with an American Standard P-bass. Both times, the producer (same one each time) remarked that I wasn't getting enough 'attack' from the bass to situate it properly in the mix. Even after opening up the tone fully, it still wasn't quite enough for one of the tracks - I ended up using a pick super close to the bridge just to get a little more bite. The track sounds ok, but not nearly as meaty as it should've been. (I should note that I was using GHS pressurewounds on this particular bass).

My question is, (without of course knowing if the pickups were faulty) should I look into adding some sort of overdrive, or a preamp to my setup? Right now I just go PBass into amp (or DI in the studio), no effects. I've always loved the P tone, but if it's going to be my workhorse, what could I do to maybe add a little more presence to it? FWIW, I typically play rock in the style of bands like Wilco, MMJ, Dr Dog, etc. But I also take on some Motown/Soul stuff from time to time.
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I see this issue a lot.. I had it too.. one easy fix.... dark glass b7k. done mic drop....
 
#57
chilliwilli said:
I disagree. Your technique definitely plays the biggest role in whether or not you have an attacking style, but all the technique in the world will not give you what you need on a modern rock session if you show up with nylon tapewounds and roll your tone down.

Also chances are mr. producer is not a bass player. When he says "attack" I'd be willing to bet he is trying to say he wants a more aggressive tone. OP is using a brand of groundwound strings that in my experience have a somewhat subdued true mid/high mid range and also a slightly muted top end once they break in.
Click to expand...

This is what attack is:
instrument_create.jpg

The V stands for volume.

Attack has nothing to do with tone.
 
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#58
Swap the pressurewounds for stainless steel. Also, forget the pick. The thing with picks is that they don't have enough low end. Go for a more aggressive finger style (kinda like Geddy), much more powerful.

If all this fails, them go for a pedal.
 

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