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Getting overpaid - owner wants it back

#81
This situation depends on exactly how the bar manager paid the extra $100.

If the bar manager handed over the money & never mentioned anything about the amount or any extra above the agreed pay, the band / BL should have immediately spoken to the bar manager and asked if he or she intended to exceed the agreed pay. If it wasn’t intentional, the money should obviously have been returned at that time.

If the bar manager said the additional pay was intentional for doing well or any reason, and it was clear the bar manager and the band were both aware of the extra $100, it was a tip. Where the bar manager got the money for the tip is between the bar manager & owner.

The whole circumstance is totally about the knowledge of the bar manager. If he or she grabbed a hand full of $100 bills, counted out the band pay, and accidentally pulled out an extra bill, it’s an accident.
If he or she acknowledged there was an extra $100 in the pay, it definitely wasn’t an accident, and the band is not responsible for the source of the extra $100.
 
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#82
BaltBass5 said:
I find it astonishing how many people have the opinion that it should be returned so that you get future gigs there.
WHY would you want to play at a venue where the owner was that petty? A decent owner would have reached out and said something to the effect of "Hey guys, just wanted to bring it to your attention that my bar manager overpaid you by $100. This was a mistake but, the bar had a good night so we are all good. Just wanted to ensure that we are all on the same page for your next show".
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If this was the ONLY place to play in town I may be more forgiving. But this is TACKY as hell. TACKY. AS. HELL. We got overpaid once, by alot more than $100 and we made it known to the manager. He said to keep it. So, while I agree the BL should have made it known to the person that was paying them, asking for $100 back is soooo lame. The owner could have said, hey we overpaid you guys $100, we can take it off the next gigs pay and been good. Sounds like the owner is beyond cheap.
 
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#84
as the old saying goes, honesty is the best policy. I’ve been in situations where the bar manager had not gotten clear information from the owner about what to pay us, and they asked me what the agreed price was. I would never think of doing anything other than being straight up honest - it never leads anywhere good to do otherwise. if I were paid $100 more on the spot, I would ask if that was intended, and if it was a tip, and if so, I would thank them. If not, they would be grateful for me to catch the mistake.
 
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#85
I think it’s not so much hustling as they also have books they need to resolve and profits to make. From my experience, it is always better to view the venue as your partner in a successful night, rather than as an opposing force, unless proven wrong. Even in those cases it is always worth it to take the high road and act with integrity, especially when dealing with difficult people. I have been consistently playing 80-100+ shows a year for the past 10 years in many settings, and what I have learned is that building bridges and doing the right thing by the client is more important than nickel and diming. There have been many cases where we have, within reason, played over our time, added services (adding bass or cello for cocktail), or shifted around set times to do what we know is going to sound or go best with the flow, and it has helped us to establish ourselves as experts who will get the job done no matter what. In terms of weddings, we have gotten tons of referrals from satisfied brides and grooms. For venues, we are usually the band that they keep when cuts are going around, or the band that are given a raise when other bands that demanded higher pay got cut eventually. When you win over venue and managers and maître d’s one by one, you build a robust portfolio of gigs. From my perspective, it’s all about the long game and always acting in the best interest of the team for the night rather than just yourselves as the band.
 
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#86
As a working player my whole life, I always, and I mean always, address any over or underpayment immediately. On the spot. “Hey, you paid me too much here.” It may sound dumb to some, but it’s first and foremost about my integrity as a working professional. Second about the fact that mistakes happen, and I’d not be comfortable taking advantage of them. Because I’d not like that done to me if I screwed up. Thirdly, there are some real weirdos out there that will just test you to see what you’ll do.

It’s happened several times over the course of my career. It’s not a common occurrence, but has happened. I’ve gotten everything from “that was on purpose” to “thank you, the bills must’ve stuck together.”

If you’d address an underpayment (and everyone should) you should address an overpayment.
 
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#87
As others have said, we would have asked about it right away. Just to clear up any confusion on the spot before everyone left.

Not throwing any shade your way, just something we do. We always divvy up the funds right away and on a couple occasions have been in this same spot. Most of the time it was indeed a tip. But in one instance I can remember it was a mistake and the manager that paid us seemed embarrassed by the mistake and asked for 1/2 of it back. We still play that place.
 
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#92
KenSmithFan said:
Sorry, I'm calling BS on the BL. This happened to me in the same club TWICE. Each time I told the truth. If they had shorted you would the BL have just assumed that it was because the crowd was thin or left early? Of course not, they would say, "Hey, the contract says XXX dollars."

Your BL pulled a fast one and got caught. It's as simple as that.

Funny how so many people wave the contract around to make sure that they don't get cheated, but then, when the club makes a mistake, all of a sudden the contract disappears.
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Ahhh, I think most of us have so successfully filtered shysty musicians out of our circles that this isn’t even a possibility, but in reality it is a possibility.

mgr: k, here’s the $X I was supposed to give you.

BL: nah, it was supposed to be $X+Y

mgr: k

alternately…

BL: (hmm, I blew my money on Feelgoods and don’t have enough to cover child support next week :/ OOH I KNOW!) hey guys I only negotiated for $X and they gave us $X+Y!

Day or two later

BL: guys, jerk bar owner wants the +Y back. I’m gonna need each of your portions of $Y back to give back to her.

If the BL’s story is that the request for repayment was not in text, it definitely is probably a good idea to directly contact the Bar Owner and Manager to verify your BL’s story.

Your BL may need to be blacklisted.
 
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#93
I’ve found it’s never wise to get into an argument with a woman if it can be avoided. It’s not worth the hassle. Especially over $100.

Just hand it back to her personally - and get a receipt.
 
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#95
Runnerman said:
This is a new one on me. We did a nice gig a few weeks ago. First time at the place. It was a warm spell that night here in NC. Club had the front doors open and a good crowd cycled in and out from the street, good vibes and a fun evening. After load out the bar manager paid our BL and gave him $100 more than was agreed on with the club owner. Said he loved our playing and thanked us. BL thought...that's pretty cool, and since we had pulled a good crowd he didn't think anything of it and took the cash.

A couple days later the owner called and said my guy over paid you $100. What do you want to do about it? The BL just told her we thought you appreciated our playing and the crowd we brought in so we accepted it. She made him feel like we did something wrong and we owe her something. Do we? Should we offer to discount another gig?

I forgot to say that there was a contract. We just assumed the extra was a tip for a good performance if that makes sense.
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We expect venues to honor the contract, and we should as well. Just give them back the $100.

We can sit here and point out the nuanced details of what money the Manager used to overpay, or how uncool or tacky or gauche it is to ask for it back, or how poor-business practice it is, or all the other technicalities, rule-lawyering, interpersonal relationship issues, or gig-getting strategies with this or other venues in the area. But at the end of the day, your band and the bar had a contract for a stated price. Honor that price.

Each band-member's split of that $100 hopefully isn't gonna make or break them. (And if it is, we have other issues to discuss as professional musicians than this one $100 over-payment.) If we were talking thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of overpayment, it might be a different story. In that case i'd say get a lawyer involved. But, it's $100. If you go to the store and hand them extra cash, you expect change back. Doesn't really matter that the manager wanted to overpay; it wasn't their place to override the contract. The contract wasn't revised and signed by all parties. There wasn't a new contract.

Just honor the contract and shrug it off as one of those things that you have to deal with as a musician. You can even say to the owner or the manager when you hand back the money, "We were excited and grateful that we were given the extra cash for our good performance. We thought it was a tip or something. Obviously it kinda sucks to have to give it back, but we have a contract and want to honor it the same way we expect you all to hold up your end of the contract, which you did. Here ya go."
 
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#97
jutty17 said:
Good faith goes a long way towards you reputation. While $100 is a trivial amount of money, it's the principle not so much the amount. I would give it back with a smile on my face and know we'd be on a first call basis with the club in the future. Look at it as a very cheap investment in your band: $100 now will be many agreed-upon gigs in the future. If you get a reputation as honest and easy-going, you'll be viewed as very employable.
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Again though…WHY would you want to play there and maintain a relationship with a petty owner?!?
 
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#100
Tim Skaggs said:
This situation depends on exactly how the bar manager paid the extra $100.

If the bar manager handed over the money & never mentioned anything about the amount or any extra above the agreed pay, the band / BL should have immediately spoken to the bar manager and asked if he or she intended to exceed the agreed pay. If it wasn’t intentional, the money should obviously have been returned at that time.

If the bar manager said the additional pay was intentional for doing well or any reason, and it was clear the bar manager and the band were both aware of the extra $100, it was a tip. Where the bar manager got the money for the tip is between the bar manager & owner.

The whole circumstance is totally about the knowledge of the bar manager. If he or she grabbed a hand full of $100 bills, counted out the band pay, and accidentally pulled out an extra bill, it’s an accident.
If he or she acknowledged there was an extra $100 in the pay, it definitely wasn’t an accident, and the band is not responsible for the source of the extra $100.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 

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