Is the perfect action for a guitar all in the neck? Or is it a combination of neck / bridge? Is it possible to get really low, non-buzzing action on a jazz bass? I have a highway one from 2005, but would eventually like to mod it, with locking tuners, a new neck, new pickups, etc.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Getting that "perfect action"
- Thread starter sarnz
- Start date
It's definitely a combination of neck and bridge. Truss rod needs to be right, bridge needs to be intonated and height adjusted to match the radius of the fretboard. On a Highway One Jazz you should be able to get really low action unless Fender QA severely screwed up.
hmm. the neck is decently straight, but still seems a little bit warped. and when i run my hand up and down the neck, i can feel the edge of the frets. this is called fret sprout right? I don't keep it in a case. The finish on the back also was not very good. It has the skunk stripe on the back and it was very uncomfortable because of a finish flaw. I had to sand it down and it's better, but still noticeable. So all in all I'm not a huge fan of that neck... And no matter what it always seems to buzz.
I like the Fender name on the headstock, don't ask why. it's one of those stupid things. But would it be better to get a warmoth neck or a brand new Fender licensed neck?
I like the Fender name on the headstock, don't ask why. it's one of those stupid things. But would it be better to get a warmoth neck or a brand new Fender licensed neck?
Action is the result of the following, from the neck to the bridge:
Nut slots
- Need to be cut with the fret heights in mind, for low open string action without buzz
Frets
- Need to be level with each other, for even action across the neck
Neck Bow
- Truss Rod needs to be adjusted with a very slight forward bow such that fretting at any fret does not cause the strings to buzz on any of the frets that follow, but not so far forward as to cause high action in the upper frets, and potentially throw off the intonation in the upper frets
Pickup Height
- Pickup height needs to be adjusted so that the strings don't contact the pickup pole pieces while playing, and also that the magnetic pull of the pickups doesn't adversely affect the strings (G&L MFD Humbuckers come to mind), while keeping the pickups high enough to avoid a thin tone.
Bridge Saddle Height
- Bridge Saddles are the primary component for setting the action. Bridge Saddle Height should be set to each players preference. A common trait for the bridge saddle height is that they are set up to follow the contour of the fretboard radius.
Nut slots
- Need to be cut with the fret heights in mind, for low open string action without buzz
Frets
- Need to be level with each other, for even action across the neck
Neck Bow
- Truss Rod needs to be adjusted with a very slight forward bow such that fretting at any fret does not cause the strings to buzz on any of the frets that follow, but not so far forward as to cause high action in the upper frets, and potentially throw off the intonation in the upper frets
Pickup Height
- Pickup height needs to be adjusted so that the strings don't contact the pickup pole pieces while playing, and also that the magnetic pull of the pickups doesn't adversely affect the strings (G&L MFD Humbuckers come to mind), while keeping the pickups high enough to avoid a thin tone.
Bridge Saddle Height
- Bridge Saddles are the primary component for setting the action. Bridge Saddle Height should be set to each players preference. A common trait for the bridge saddle height is that they are set up to follow the contour of the fretboard radius.
The "secret" to setting up a bolt-on bass is to get the neck pitch adjusted correctly. That means the angle of the neck relative to the body.
I don't think I have ever picked up a Fender bass that didn't need to have the neck pitch adjusted. I hear Fender's quality control has improved a lot lately (at least for USA models), so maybe things are different now.
The other trick is to cut the nut so that the strings sit nice and low. This is another area where Fender sometimes dropped the ball IME.
Anyway, these are things to consider. If your neck is straight and your frets are level but you still can't get the action where you want it, the problem almost always lies in the neck pitch + nut slot depth.
I don't think I have ever picked up a Fender bass that didn't need to have the neck pitch adjusted. I hear Fender's quality control has improved a lot lately (at least for USA models), so maybe things are different now.
The other trick is to cut the nut so that the strings sit nice and low. This is another area where Fender sometimes dropped the ball IME.
Anyway, these are things to consider. If your neck is straight and your frets are level but you still can't get the action where you want it, the problem almost always lies in the neck pitch + nut slot depth.
i see.. i will have to look up videos of adjusting the neck angle. the body and the finish on this highway 1 is awesome. already has scratches and is a little beat up. i'm going to do a little modding on the looks of the hardware tomorrow. i think I may sand the neck to see if i can get the edges of those frets down and to make that skunk stripe more comfortable...
Yeah you can get a good setup even on a, er, financially challenged bass. I prefer a very low action all up and down the board. The way I get it is
- set intial action by adjusting saddle height at bridge to where you have it just barely higher than too much buzz at the heel (last few frets/positions). I.e. acceptable buzz, but no higher.
- now cut nut slots. My preference is down to where the strings sit above the second fret when you fret at first fret (or nearly at fingerboard itself for fretless). Re-verify action.
- now adjust rod. If action is high in middle of the board, it needs to be flattened (tighten truss rod). If too much buzz everywhere or at one spot, it needs relief added (loosen truss rod). Adjust as needed until buzz becomes objectionable at worst spot on neck. Back off rod at that point to where it's just above objectionable.
- repeat action and rod adjustments until it's right.
I don't usually set intonation because I play fretless, unless it's just severely off to where I have to do something wierd with my fingering. But for fretted, after this, go ahead and set intonation. Moving the saddles may affect the action a little bit so you may have to retweak the saddle height afterwards.
works for me, even on an el-cheapo bass. If it doesn't have some kind of problem like low frets or a warped board, you can get a nice supple action this way.
YMMV, tho, depending on your preferences for action....
LS
Garry Willis has a pretty decent explanation on his website.
Basically, you set the neck relief to however you like it. Then you set the action as low as you can go...low enough that you just get some buzzing when you start to "dig in" a tiny bit.
Now play up and down the neck to see where you have the worst of the buzzing. If it buzzes down near the nut (but plays clean up above the 12th fret), then the neck is tipped too far forwards. If it buzzes up above the 12-14th fret, then the neck is angled too far back.
That's the quick-and-dirty explanation. It's not quite so simple, because neck relief will also come into the picture. For example, if the neck is too straight (or has some back-bow), then you'll have buzzıng down below the 4-5th fret even if the neck pitch is perfect.
Really, it sounds more complicated than it is. Once you fool around with it, you'll see how it all works.
Basically, you set the neck relief to however you like it. Then you set the action as low as you can go...low enough that you just get some buzzing when you start to "dig in" a tiny bit.
Now play up and down the neck to see where you have the worst of the buzzing. If it buzzes down near the nut (but plays clean up above the 12th fret), then the neck is tipped too far forwards. If it buzzes up above the 12-14th fret, then the neck is angled too far back.
That's the quick-and-dirty explanation. It's not quite so simple, because neck relief will also come into the picture. For example, if the neck is too straight (or has some back-bow), then you'll have buzzıng down below the 4-5th fret even if the neck pitch is perfect.
Really, it sounds more complicated than it is. Once you fool around with it, you'll see how it all works.
i like that. i will have to try it. but the neck has a very slight bow, the nut cuts do not seem low at all, the action is kind of high, and yet there is still buzz. i thought it was me, but my friend has a cheapo ibanez jumpstart bass that gets no buzz and the action is as high as mine.
if all else fails with me trying to set this neck up, what are the opinions on graphite necks? are there carbon fiber ones too? not only would that look totally badass but i'm sure they would be almost perfect?
if all else fails with me trying to set this neck up, what are the opinions on graphite necks? are there carbon fiber ones too? not only would that look totally badass but i'm sure they would be almost perfect?
I've had one Fender, which had the problems you describe (and many I've tried in the stores do as well).
I've had two dirt cheap Ibanez basses, neither of which had these problems.
My Warwick Thumb doesn't have these problems.
My Modoulus Q5 (which has a graphite neck), is the best of any that I've owned and has the lowest action, zero fret buzz, and by far the best intonation and note evenness.
I've had two dirt cheap Ibanez basses, neither of which had these problems.
My Warwick Thumb doesn't have these problems.
My Modoulus Q5 (which has a graphite neck), is the best of any that I've owned and has the lowest action, zero fret buzz, and by far the best intonation and note evenness.
yep, that's it...
one poster mentioned neck angle...
neck angle only really comes into play when the bridge saddles are max-ing out one way or the other...
another thing about frets...you will often find it necessary to have a bit of "fall away" in the upper frets...this is essentially a slight "drop off" of fret height on the last few frets as they move towards the bridge...this eliminates the buzzing that you sometimes experience on low action when playing up the neck....I know craftsmen, like Roger Sadowsky always make sure that fall-away is dressed into his necks...
pilbara - no need to bet, cus i probably do! you mentioned there should be a dropoff towards the higher frets. using basic logic, i thought that is how it should be. turns out it is the OPPOSITE! the uppermost frets seem to be higher than the rest. the bow of the neck is a very slight S shape almost. its not extremely noticeable when you're looking at it, but ive come to realize with guitars and basses that millimeters make all the difference.
when i get money i think i will buy one of those graphite necks. not only will it look totally badass (and ill get some satin chrome locking tuners for it as well) but i'm sure it will make all the difference. so ill have a 3 tone sunburst satin finished body, black pickguard, graphite neck, with silver chrome locking tuners. just picturing it gets me going!
when i get money i think i will buy one of those graphite necks. not only will it look totally badass (and ill get some satin chrome locking tuners for it as well) but i'm sure it will make all the difference. so ill have a 3 tone sunburst satin finished body, black pickguard, graphite neck, with silver chrome locking tuners. just picturing it gets me going!
That should be easy enough to sort out with just a truss-rod tweak.
Again, it sounds like neck pitch is probably what you need to address next.
That's a pretty drastic step. I'm sure your neck can be adjusted. If the neck is genuinely warped/twisted, then go after Fender and have them replace it under warranty. Why replace the neck if all you need is a set-up?
If you really need a new neck, I would start with a wood neck from Warmoth. They sell really nice necks with extra stiffening rods, etc. for fair prices. Last I checked, you could get a solid birdseye maple neck (or birdseye maple with ebony board) for just under $250.
If you want carbon, you can check out Status, Modulus, and Moses. The Moses will be the cheapest (around $350-400 for a Fender-style neck). But there have been complaints about the fretwork and build quality. You can do a search for "Moses graphite" to read more. Last I checked, a 4-string Modulus neck was in the neighborhood of $700 and Status necks were around 275 GBP (just under $400 at today's exchange rates). Most folks around here seem to favor Status necks for their high bang:buck ratio.
Keep in mind that a carbon neck will sound significantly different than a wooden neck. You might like it you might not.
hmm, well i guess that is the great part about forums eh? I did not know that there were build quality issues with those types of necks, or how drastically different they would sound.
I like to jump the gun. Especially when I don't have a lot of money, I create all these hopes and dreams of the perfect guitar. Perhaps warmoth would be a much better choice, especially for the money. I wish I could just see pictures online straight down the fretboard of what a warped or twisted neck looks like. to me, it does not look perfect. but then again, i'm no pro.
I like to jump the gun. Especially when I don't have a lot of money, I create all these hopes and dreams of the perfect guitar. Perhaps warmoth would be a much better choice, especially for the money. I wish I could just see pictures online straight down the fretboard of what a warped or twisted neck looks like. to me, it does not look perfect. but then again, i'm no pro.
I'm not suggesting that graphite necks in general are problematic. But there have been lots of threads about problems with Moses necks delaminating and such. I have also seen 2 older Modulus necks that were bowed, which is a real problem since they don't have truss-rods in them! For the most part, however, graphite necks are more trouble-free and lower maintenance than wooden necks.
I should also mention that the only graphite neck I have tons of experience with is the Steinberger "Original Blend" in my 4-string XM-2 and 5-string XQ-5. These are the older necks without trussrods and with zero relief. I have played a bunch of Modulus basses and a few Status basses...but I have never owned one.
Every graphite-necked bass I have tried has a certain tone to it. The fundamental seems stronger and the overtones are a bit attenuated, which gives you a certain dryness and purity. People describe it as a "piano-like" tone. If you're used to the mid-range honk of a Fender J or bark of a Fender P, then you might not relate to it.
Hey, we all do that
Is there any reason why you can't take it to a pro? I just had a local luthier take a look at my newest bass because I was worried that the trussrod might be stuck. He didn't even charge me.
the problem is finding the pro's. i had my guitar 'set up' through a shop because it needed a new nut put in, and i figured i'd have the guy set it up as well. when i got it back it was not suited for how i play at all... i mean the things was buzzing like crazy. needless to say i didn't have much confidence in the tech there. there used to be an amazing tech that worked there but left. after that they haven't had anyone close to his ability.
I will try to take some pictures tomorrow of my neck and maybe you guys can help to judge it? I'll take a lot of em.
I will try to take some pictures tomorrow of my neck and maybe you guys can help to judge it? I'll take a lot of em.
