Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps

[Bruce Johnson]

In your opinion, have any of the big name fender style builders addressed this issue and solved or mitigated it better than the rest? I'm thinking Lakland, Sadowsky, Ernie Ball, Nash etc. Thanks.

Well, my "backstrap" technique using carbon fiber TOW is a genuine fix. I've been putting them in all of my own basses, and most of the necks for a group of other Luthier customers, for about 25 years. To my knowledge, we've never yet seen a neck with the carbon fiber backstrap develop a 12th fret kink aka ski jump. Not a single one. I have a few basses here in my own collection that I built 20+ years ago, and they have no sign of any kink.

Basses with my carbon fiber backstrap:

1. My own Scroll Basses
2. Keith Horne; all of his guitars and basses
3. Touch Singleton; all of his guitars and basses
4. Pat Wilkins; all of his recent 32" scale basses, and most of his other basses from 2005-2012?
   
5. Mike Lipe; all of his guitars and basses from 2002-2018; Mike passed away in 2018; There are about 200 of his basses out there.
6. Paul Slagle; most of his basses from 2010-2020; Paul passed away in 2020

Most of the smaller high end builders have reduced the ski jump problem by increasing the thickness of the neck around the 12th fret area. They figure out a minimum thickness that they need to minimize the problem. You don't often see ski jumps on high end Fender-style basses, because they are careful with selection of wood and staying within known dimensional tolerances.

Fender, on the other hand, has known about ski jumps in their bass necks for 50 years, and they haven't done any real fix that I know of. Most of their necks are okay, but they are marginal. A few always slip through that start kinking in the first few years. Mostly lower priced models and ones with thinner necks. I really don't know why they haven't just fixed it. It's not very difficult or expensive.

 

[SteC]

This thread is awesome. Thanks for all the info! I'm wondering how to tell if it's ski jump or something else? Frets are looking level to me but I'm just using a credit card as a fret rocker. And also at what point is it considered too severe to fix with a fret level?

I took some measurements of some basses, hope this data is of some use to you! Let me know if there's a better way to measure/check. I fretted at the 1st and 12th frets and checked the relief at the 6/7/8th frets and then fretted the 7th and 20th frets and checked the relief at the 11/12/13th frets.

Bass 1 - I'm not sure about this one, let me know what you think!
1-12 .0035
7-20 .005

Bass 2 - I suspect that this one has a ski jump
1-12 .006
7-20 .009

Bass 3 - I suspect this one is good
1-12 .008
7-20 .002

 

[Whale]

If you read back a few pages you'll see that the neck on my '62 AVRI Jazz bass fell victim to the infamous and far too common "ski jump" issue. For a few reasons my specific year of bass (1982) is becoming somewhat more valuable so my options were kind of limited. The fretboards are rather thin for these years so it wasn't possible to plane the fretboard flat. Also, I don't have a skunk stripe which means it wasn't possible to "easily" add carbon fiber strips to build up strength within the neck.

I finally decided to send the neck to Erik at WarpedNeck.com. The neck came back to me a week or so ago and I'm very very very happy to report that it is now straight as the day it left the factory. I specifically measured the amount of relief with a set of feeler gauges and it has not moved while under string tension since I first set it up. Apart from two frets that need to be slightly levelled, it is playing like a dream.

I have no affiliation with Erik and to be completely frank, I was fairly skeptical that the ski jump issues could be eliminated. Having received the neck and seeing the differences in person, I am now a believer. My bass is back to its original playing condition! In fact, it has returned to its rightful spot as my number 1 bass.

 

[Turnaround]

It’s good to hear that WarpedNeck was able to straighten your neck satisfactorily. I am interested to see if it kinks again in the next few years.

 

[bass12]

Great thread. My Lull has some slight buzzing between the 9th and 14th frets. Using a straightedge I can’t find any bowing though. Wondering if I just need some fretwork done or if there could be a minor ski jump despite what my eyes are telling me?

 

[Pilgrim]

If you read back a few pages you'll see that the neck on my '62 AVRI Jazz bass fell victim to the infamous and far too common "ski jump" issue. For a few reasons my specific year of bass (1982) is becoming somewhat more valuable so my options were kind of limited. The fretboards are rather thin for these years so it wasn't possible to plane the fretboard flat. Also, I don't have a skunk stripe which means it wasn't possible to "easily" add carbon fiber strips to build up strength within the neck.

I finally decided to send the neck to Erik at WarpedNeck.com. The neck came back to me a week or so ago and I'm very very very happy to report that it is now straight as the day it left the factory. I specifically measured the amount of relief with a set of feeler gauges and it has not moved while under string tension since I first set it up. Apart from two frets that need to be slightly levelled, it is playing like a dream.

I have no affiliation with Erik and to be completely frank, I was fairly skeptical that the ski jump issues could be eliminated. Having received the neck and seeing the differences in person, I am now a believer. My bass is back to its original playing condition! In fact, it has returned to its rightful spot as my number 1 bass.

Can you give us a general idea of the cost for that ski jump fix?

 

[Whale]

It’s good to hear that WarpedNeck was able to straighten your neck satisfactorily. I am interested to see if it kinks again in the next few years.

I love my bass dearly. For me, this is a once in a lifetime instruments so I was very very concerned that it had come to the end of its usable life. I had heard about WarpedNeck and figured the success rate might be 30 to 40%, at the most. I did a Google search on others who had their necks repaired and reached out to a dozen or so guitarists and bassists. 7 or 8 replied. Each gave glowing accounts and reported that their necks are holding steady after years of playing. With that info in hand I decided to roll the dice and see if Erik could fix the problem. Now, with my neck playing so well, I have to admit that I wasn't really taking a chance after all. Erik has somehow devised a way to "work out the kinks" (so to speak).

This being said, I realize that the Fender design has an inherent flaw. In X number of years my neck may once again require attention. If so, I'll send my neck back and let Erik work his magic.

Can you give us a general idea of the cost for that ski jump fix?

Hopefully, I'm not screwing anyone over by sharing the amount that was quoted to me. I suppose I should add a disclaimer by saying Erik may decide to raise his prices as time goes on and a neck with a more severe issue might cost more, but as of last month (December 2020) the cost was $125. That doesn't include shipping to/from Denton, Texas. $125 might seem like a fair amount until you start to think of fees at your local luthier or the cost of a replacement neck. Even the cheapo Chinese necks are selling for $115 or so. A USA neck from Fender is $550-ish.

I am still having a hard (but happy) time believing it. It's one of those "too good to be true" things. All I know is that my bass is back in my hands, the action is lower than it ever has been, and it's sounding great!

 

[Pilgrim]

I love my bass dearly. For me, this is a once in a lifetime instruments so I was very very concerned that it had come to the end of its usable life. I had heard about WarpedNeck and figured the success rate might be 30 to 40%, at the most. I did a Google search on others who had their necks repaired and reached out to a dozen or so guitarists and bassists. 7 or 8 replied. Each gave glowing accounts and reported that their necks are holding steady after years of playing. With that info in hand I decided to roll the dice and see if Erik could fix the problem. Now, with my neck playing so well, I have to admit that I wasn't really taking a chance after all. Erik has somehow devised a way to "work out the kinks" (so to speak).

This being said, I realize that the Fender design has an inherent flaw. In X number of years my neck may once again require attention. If so, I'll send my neck back and let Erik work his magic.



Hopefully, I'm not screwing anyone over by sharing the amount that was quoted to me. I suppose I should add a disclaimer by saying Erik may decide to raise his prices as time goes on and a neck with a more severe issue might cost more, but as of last month (December 2020) the cost was $125. That doesn't include shipping to/from Denton, Texas. $125 might seem like a fair amount until you start to think of fees at your local luthier or the cost of a replacement neck. Even the cheapo Chinese necks are selling for $115 or so. A USA neck from Fender is $550-ish.

I am still having a hard (but happy) time believing it. It's one of those "too good to be true" things. All I know is that my bass is back in my hands, the action is lower than it ever has been, and it's sounding great!

VERY helpful! Thank you.

 

[_Obra_]

Here is a link of possible solution for previously mentioned heat procedure.
It's pretty interesting what Dave came up with.

 

[JKos]

Got to love Dave!

 

[Joshua]

Moderator insert:

I deleted some recent posts only because they were not in the spirit of the Pro Bench:

Pro Bench: How this forum works

Please feel free to start such threads in the Setup & Repair forum for discussion.

 

[lowendblues]

Great thread, lots of wisdom here.

 

[lowendblues]

I want to try this with an old Peavey Fury neck I've been working with.

QUESTION: When you clamp the neck up the neck, do you have the truss rod slackened? or do you have tension on the neck?

OK, so i just did another neck with the same issue, and so far success!

a warwick bolt-on, and interestingly, the kink was not right at the round-to-square transition but a little ways away (the feeler gauge shows the fattest gauge i could fit under the straightedge and where i could fit it):
View attachment 1041435

View attachment 1041436

here's the heating lamp clamping rig-up in all its ghetto glory:

View attachment 1041437

clamped that spot into backbow, let it "bake" for most of a day, left it clamped up to cool overnight, and it came out great. had i done a fret level afterwards i could have gotten it to "perfect", but as it was it played just fine finally.

the customer even had me lower it from my own standard "medium low" action (2/32" to 3/32", high to low, at the 15th fret) and it still played well for him.

 

[walterw]

I want to try this with an old Peavey Fury neck I've been working with.

QUESTION: When you clamp the neck up the neck, do you have the truss rod slackened? or do you have tension on the neck?

huh!

good question, one i haven't really thought about. that kink at the body end is happening outside the part of the neck the truss rod really affects. i suppose if anything it would be good to adjust the rod so that the rest of the unstrung neck is straight while working on the kinked part, making it easier to tell what you've accomplished

 

[lowendblues]

Thank you for the reply. I've been doing my own setups for 40 + years, but have never ventured into this type of repair. I really want to try this, I figure for what I have in the Peavey fury, I really cant lose if the repair goes south.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I want to try this with an old Peavey Fury neck I've been working with.

QUESTION: When you clamp the neck up the neck, do you have the truss rod slackened? or do you have tension on the neck?

Yes, I would loosen the truss rod, just for safety. You are going to be applying an overload to one area of the neck to bend the wood. The truss rod shouldn't be trying to resist the load much in that area. But still, don't take a risk on overloading the truss rod, possibly damaging it or crushing the wood around it.

 

[lowendblues]

Thank you, will do.

 

[TTA]

My 1996 ric 4003 has a thin neck and the ski jump. If i adjust the rods i get the s shape. Funny i only found i fo on this now.

Would super light gauge strings help, or is the kink permanent?

Just wondering what options us ric players have?


I assume fretboard off… cf rods.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

That’s surprising, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a neck through with classic ski jump, but I guess it’s the same principal. Do companies like Warpedneck.com even do neck through?

Edit doesn’t look like they do neck through, no mention of it on the website. Might be major surgery like removing the fingerboard and planing it flat. Are the body wings separating from the neck beam? That’s a whole other kettle of fish. Any cracks along those seams?

 

[TTA]

That’s surprising, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a neck through with classic ski jump, but I guess it’s the same principal. Do companies like Warpedneck.com even do neck through?

Edit doesn’t look like they do neck through, no mention of it on the website. Might be major surgery like removing the fingerboard and planing it flat. Are the body wings separating from the neck beam? That’s a whole other kettle of fish. Any cracks along those seams?

Not really. It is a classic 12th fret bend