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Getting through the mix

Colinos5

Colinos5

Guest
Jan 12, 2013
37
32
Netherlands
#1
Hello dear fellow bassists,

I've been struggling for a while with this problem. Little info on my gear: I own a Laney RB410 (it's a 600 watt cabinet with 4x10'') and a Sandberg California TM4.

Whenever it's just me and the drummer I can hear myself fine. I even get complaints from my bandmates like:'Wow, yeah that's loud enough alright'. However when we play a song I can stop playing at any time and people hardly notice it. Sometimes I rehearsed really hard on certain fills and no one noticed because no one hears me over the other instruments. Sure, the low end gets through, but the tone is gone. The downside of my amp is that it can't handle very loud volumes anymore. However I feel like it shouldn't have to.

Long story short: I've been told I should tone down the low end and put in more mid/high and volume, or take out mid and raise low and high with lower volume. I'm sure people encounter this issue at some time or another. I'd very much like your experience and tips on this.

Side note: the rest can lower volume, but the drummer hates to drum 'holding back'. So we kind of need a certain volume to match with the drums.

Another side note: this is a problem for rehearsing AND live. I had a gig a while back where I heard someone say in between songs: 'Wow, that bassist looks really busy, but I don't know what I'm supposed to hear..'. This person was standing a few feet from my amp.
 
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#2
1) What head are you running?

2) LOW MIDS are what get heard and felt not just one or the other. Start with your head set to flat (as best you can determine flat for that particular head). I'm not sure what electronics come on your bass, but set that flat if it is active and tone wide open (just for starters) if it is passive. THEN start tweeking. Pay ZERO attention to numbers and/or dial positions. Forget "I always set my mids to 3 o'clock" or any such nonsense. Tweek your tone with your EARS and not your eyes. First, add some low mids and then go from there. Once we figure out what head you have we can tell you how if need be.

3) You have to insist that your guitar players don't play tiny basses. What I mean is, if they want to play bass, let them play bass. If they want to play guitar, quit tuning down to low F# and cranking the bass frequencies on their rigs.

4) Volume - Even the best bass rigs have a hard time moving enough air to compete with incredibly loud guitars. Especially in rehearsal, they simply HAVE to turn down a little. If your sound is huge while they aren't playing and then vanishing when they crank up it's because they are too loud.

5) Adjust - Can you get your speaker cab in position to point at your head? Can you get it off the ground so you can feel it behind you as well as hear it? Are you guys using PA for practice? If so, can you run a little bass in it?

6) See #4. Until you get the guitarists to turn down, it's not hopeless, but doubtful you will gain much ground on the volume war.

Good luck with it!
 
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#3
Mids. It's all about the mids.
When your am is cranked and can do no more, dial back on the lows and get mids in.
If you're playing a bass with two pickups, use only one of them.
Dial in your sound at full band volume, not when standing alone in front of the amp.
I usually plug in my bass at the beginning of rehearsal, play a bit and wonder why it sounds like that - and then, when the guitars start i sit in the mix and everything sounds different.
 
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#4
el murdoque said:
Mids. It's all about the mids.
When your am is cranked and can do no more, dial back on the lows and get mids in.
If you're playing a bass with two pickups, use only one of them.
Dial in your sound at full band volume, not when standing alone in front of the amp.
I usually plug in my bass at the beginning of rehearsal, play a bit and wonder why it sounds like that - and then, when the guitars start i sit in the mix and everything sounds different.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have a humbucker at the bridge and a single at the neck active bass. I can switch one line from the humbucker off which basicly would give me two single's. I can also switch between front and back pickup. Why would I take one out though? Because the tone becomes more defined?
 
#6
two fingers said:
1) What head are you running?

2) LOW MIDS are what get heard and felt not just one or the other. Start with your head set to flat (as best you can determine flat for that particular head). I'm not sure what electronics come on your bass, but set that flat if it is active and tone wide open (just for starters) if it is passive. THEN start tweeking. Pay ZERO attention to numbers and/or dial positions. Forget "I always set my mids to 3 o'clock" or any such nonsense. Tweek your tone with your EARS and not your eyes. First, add some low mids and then go from there. Once we figure out what head you have we can tell you how if need be.

3) You have to insist that your guitar players don't play tiny basses. What I mean is, if they want to play bass, let them play bass. If they want to play guitar, quit tuning down to low F# and cranking the bass frequencies on their rigs.

4) Volume - Even the best bass rigs have a hard time moving enough air to compete with incredibly loud guitars. Especially in rehearsal, they simply HAVE to turn down a little. If your sound is huge while they aren't playing and then vanishing when they crank up it's because they are too loud.

5) Adjust - Can you get your speaker cab in position to point at your head? Can you get it off the ground so you can feel it behind you as well as hear it? Are you guys using PA for practice? If so, can you run a little bass in it?

6) See #4. Until you get the guitarists to turn down, it's not hopeless, but doubtful you will gain much ground on the volume war.

Good luck with it!
Click to expand...

These are some good tips, thanks. I don't feel like I'm in too much of a fight with the guitarist though. I think the keys are more on my frequenty. We could try taking some low away from the keyboard.
Not too sure on the bass head, it came with the amp. I'd have to check tonight, as it's in the studio. (the whole set was a gift I got a few months ago, haven't had the time to really get to know it yet)

I've also thought about getting the speaker pointed towards my head or raising the whole thing. I'd have to find something to put the whole thing on though, or perhaps build it. It's not one of those things you can push back so it's pointed at your head.

The guitarist, vocalist and keyboard are on PA, but I'm not on it. It's too much for our rehearsal speakers to handle.

Gonna try out your tips tonight!
 
#8
Ah! KEYS! Yes, they can drown you out even worse than guitars because they are designed to produce frequencies that low. Yeah just remind that guy that you have a bass player and don't need two (in a nice way of course). He doesn't need to be heavy on the left hand because you are there to cover that sonic range.

One thing to note, though. If your rehearsal speakers can handle boomy keys, they can handle a little bass as well. Frequency and volume wise they are no different. Just something to think about.
 
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#9
two fingers said:
Ah! KEYS! Yes, they can drown you out even worse than guitars because they are designed to produce frequencies that low. Yeah just remind that guy that you have a bass player and don't need two (in a nice way of course). He doesn't need to be heavy on the left hand because you are there to cover that sonic range.

One thing to note, though. If your rehearsal speakers can handle boomy keys, they can handle a little bass as well. Frequency and volume wise they are no different. Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Good to know! It could certainly help to get a little sound from more locations in the room. So as it's about the same as keys, there isn't too much risk on audiofeedback either?
 
#10
Very little risk of feedback. Keep your bass frequencies in check and ease the volume up to insure you aren't stressing the speakers.

But the best solution by far would be to get the keys players to dial back the bass in his mic AND spend a little less time hammering out bass lines with his left hand..... because you guys have a guy for that. :thumbsup:
 
#12
A lot of times a bass tone that sounds nice on it's own can turn out to be pure mud in a band setting. As a starting point try turning the tone and volume on your bass on full. Then set your amp EQs to 12 o'clock. Run through a rehearsal and see how it goes. Make your adjustments from there. On it's own it might sound a little clanky and even harsh but when the band cuts in that clank won't be so noticeable and will add definition to the notes you're playing. Good luck with it.
 
#14
Colinos5 said:
Side note: the rest can lower volume, but the drummer hates to drum 'holding back'. So we kind of need a certain volume to match with the drums.

Another side note: this is a problem for rehearsing AND live. I had a gig a while back where I heard someone say in between songs: 'Wow, that bassist looks really busy, but I don't know what I'm supposed to hear..'. This person was standing a few feet from my amp.
Click to expand...

It's certainly a drag having to use ear plugs even in a practice setting, but if your drummer always plays at a certain minimum level, you probably need to play to that level... you the bass player. Maybe cozy your amp up closer to the drummer so he can hear you. If your guitars have that all-too-common predisposition to turn it up to "awesome" too much, then it may take a collective effort to convince them to simmer down with their volume.

You may also find that your practice sound, while smooth and pleasing to your ears by itself, may have trouble holding its own in a mix. I learned this lesson a couple years ago when I picked up a bass with active EMG's in a P/J configuration. Suddenly everybody could REALLY hear me and liked my sound a lot more in our mix compared with my older passive J-bass. When I first took the new bass home though, I was a little nervous about having made a dumb purchase because it seemed like the tones it made were a little... obnoxious. As it turns out, just a little "obnoxiousness" in the form of those extra lower mids can be good for a mix.

Big picture - play loud enough for your drummer to hear you. If your guitars can't get with the program, maybe have a neutral nation come in to negotiate a truce. That could mean having a sound man help with getting everybody sorted out at a practice session. It might just make for a MUCH better show and also foster better relations among bandmates.
 
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