Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Gibson Guitars raided by FBI
- Thread starter bongomania
- Start date
To quote the late great Arrested Development, "you don't really get nature, do you?" There is a lot more to sustainable logging than planting more trees.
As Burk said, Madagascar rosewood is more expensive and more rare than other rosewoods. And in today's globalized market, selling the same commodity at a much higher price to companies in one country than those in another would be a remarkable feat. Not to mention, China isn't exactly poor these days--they've been buying US Treasury bonds the past few years.
The reality is, you got mad because people were criticizing Gibson--so you lashed out at SX with a bunch of baseless speculation.
I like how this thread gets derailed, so lemme derail it further.
1. Gibson aint found guilty of anything yet, so let's keep our eyes peeled.
2. Gibson and SX bashings are not cool. We got our money, we spend it however we like.
3. Who came up with the $2 figure for pay it China? It's low, but probably insignificant to the more pertinent measure of Consumer Price Index and exchange rate, ain't it?
4. What's with all these criticisms at China's wages and labour laws? Great Britain and USA suffered similar teeth problems when they were industrialising. I remember reading about kids picking coal in the USA in the early twentieth century. I say we recognize problems for what they are, and avoid supporting specific companies that condone or practise them instead.
1. Gibson aint found guilty of anything yet, so let's keep our eyes peeled.
2. Gibson and SX bashings are not cool. We got our money, we spend it however we like.
3. Who came up with the $2 figure for pay it China? It's low, but probably insignificant to the more pertinent measure of Consumer Price Index and exchange rate, ain't it?
4. What's with all these criticisms at China's wages and labour laws? Great Britain and USA suffered similar teeth problems when they were industrialising. I remember reading about kids picking coal in the USA in the early twentieth century. I say we recognize problems for what they are, and avoid supporting specific companies that condone or practise them instead.
The $2 figure was an exaggeration used to show a point. It was in no way a factual number meant to be taken literally.
The criticisms were also used to show my point...more or less railing against critics of Gibson who may be proponents of SX. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Just trying to bring to light the very real possibility that not only Gibson is the only company abusing its customers/workers/environment.
No, I got mad because you wouldn't throw the lemur on the grill. You're holding up the party.
This is an interesting discussion point. is SX really taking away $3,000 customers from Gibson? I doubt it. They are definitely taking away $500 customers.
I don't think the Toyota Yaris is going to take away any business from Lexus even though you could argue that the Yaris is a way better deal for the money and probably made in the same factory with the same QC. But the Yaris is definitely impacting VW Rabbit sales.
It really is sad if Gibson was taking advantage of the horrible situation in Madagascar. Reading the articles, it seems like illegal loggers are going into national parks and sanctuaries to get the valuable hardwoods out and since the government was overthrown and is in the crapper, there it no one to stop them from doing it.
Could you imagine loggers rolling into our national parks and cutting all the trees down?
This sounds like a plot for a superhero movie.
Could you imagine loggers rolling into our national parks and cutting all the trees down?
This sounds like a plot for a superhero movie.
Interesting article, though I have some doubts about the
'high end luxury restaurant market" in Madagascar.
'high end luxury restaurant market" in Madagascar.
Another wonder I have is what rosewood is SX using? Apparently not expensive Madagascar or Brazilian rosewood, or else their costs would go up. Right? But then...that means that they must be making their guitars with less quality stuff, right? But that can't be true, because there are many who swear that SX has equal wood qualities with Fender, Gibson, Ric, etc. But that wouldn't make any sense if they're not using the same expensive woods as these other companies. But if they are, then where are they getting it from so cheap? Is there a possibility they are doing what Gibson is doing too...or even importing at cheaper rates (like I stated before as a possibility). Indeed, their site proclaims that the single only reason they keep costs down is due to their volume of production. So they just might be the Wal-Mart of guitar manufacturers: forcing suppliers to slash prices in order to keep business with large buyers. The hypothesis doesn't seem so far fetched in this "global market"...does it?
So that leaves the conundrum: either SX has inferior wood qualities to keep their costs down, or they have low-wage laborers toiling in their factories to keep their costs down. Or both. Costs don't just stay down magically. Or maybe lemurs are working in the factories. I'd be fine with lemurs being enslaved for our benefit.
My point pretty much goes back to my original post: I don't want to see Gibson on trial for having high prices or due to being held up by US environmental/economic standards, when there are other brands getting away with just as much if not more...and getting bumped. Just leveling the playing field.
Seems like they are a good treat over there. I think I found a good way to restore the lemur population: kill off anyone who is caught eating them!
That might help more than saving a couple trees.
The builders of SX play by different rules than Gibson. I won't go into the differences, as I will get smacked up side the head by a moderator, but suffice to say US companies are held to a different, some might say "Higher" standard.
The folks at Gibson aren't dumb - I'll bet good money this was either an honest mistake or one exec who thought he could save the company some money by dealing with shady characters.
