as far as global warming is conserned, i believe the earth has been going throught temperature changes throughout its existance. From the ice age till now, the earth has continually been warming up (way before automobiles and hairspray were invented) I DO NOT THINK that humans are having that great effect on the temperatures of the earth. I think the earth is just going through one of its cycles.
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GLOBAL COOLING?
- Thread starter burk48237
- Start date
as far as global warming is conserned, i believe the earth has been going throught temperature changes throughout its existance. From the ice age till now, the earth has continually been warming up (way before automobiles and hairspray were invented) I DO NOT THINK that humans are having that great effect on the temperatures of the earth. I think the earth is just going through one of its cycles.
I'm not passionate enough to debate about it on TB, but count me as one who fully subscribes to the notion of global warming due to industry. I don't think we can sustain this level of pollution without causing climate change and serious environmental problems downstream (literally and figuratively). Wait until China really ramps up...it's coming fast.
burk48237 said:I AM NOT saying climate change is not occurring and it is very possible that the weather season could turn around. But I am sick of these "experts" who make up S*** as they go along and were telling us that last years hurricane season was the result of Global warming. I am convinced that half the claims of many of these so called scientist are about as scientific as a game of spin the bottle. It's snowing "must be global warming". it's raining "must be global warming" it's hot outside (damn it, it's summer!) "must be global warming". I do believe the scientific community would have a lot more credibility if they could get these "scientist" to shut up, since they can't even tell us what tomorrows weather is going to be. For the record THIS YEARS hurricane season is way BELOW average. It must be global cooling.
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So, what you're saying is, you're just some random guy with absolutely no scientific knowledge, then? You have no idea how the game works, but you still think everybody's cheating?
In that case, we should hang all doctors. Scammers say they can cure people. But you know what I heard? Sometimes they can't! What's more, they keep changing the perscribed drugs for the same conditions. If heroin was good enough as a cure in 1900, then why the hell can't it be now? Fakes. All of them.
I know they predicted a metric assload of hurricanes... and they were WRONG.
Either they were guessing, or their methodology is flawed.
Either they were guessing, or their methodology is flawed.
Why? Any particular research? Gut feeling?crkempton said:
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Poop-Loops said:
Something along the lines of what I was going to post.
Burke - why then do you think that all of these scientists are singing the same song? What exactly do you bring to the table, in terms of scientific background, to disprove these findings.
You're basically saying that if the weather man says it's going to rain and it doesn't, that meteorology is complete BS.
Poop-Loops said:
No, I don't think "everyone's cheating", But I do believe that the media has built an industry of gloom and doom prophets and pseudo-scientific spokespersons who make a living advocating for their position. I think their actions are a "full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes" approach. Many of the same "global warming prophets" were prophesying Global Cooling in the 70's, in fact many of these discredited false prophets still hold positions of esteem within the pseudo science media community (Paul Erhlich is a prime example).
When I read unmitigated crap like editorials claiming hurricane Katrina was caused by Global warming I find it easy to question the motives of the scientific community. Their is NO Reasonable proof that the hurricane season of 2005 was caused by global warming any more then the far more severe hurricane seasons of the thirties! It was just CONVIENT to their argument so they made up the facts as they went along. IF the severe hurricane season of 2005 was caused by global warming then can I assume that we have made significant progress due to the mild hurricane season of 06? Logic would dictate this conclusion, logic is apparently not something in the realm of these pseudo scientist.
My complaint is that these pseudo-scientist undermine the REAL case for climate change which I believe can be made.
Pacman said:
1) All scientist are NOT singing the same song. Their are some scientist who do not agree with global warming theory. I do not agree with them. Their are other scientist who believe in Climate change but believes mans impact is minimal. They believe that the earths climate has always changed cyclically, I tend to lean toward that view. Their are other respectable scientist who do believe in global warming and man as the cause of it.
My complaint is with these little stories that pop up in the news media all of the time claiming that some climactic event we are experiencing TODAY is indisputably caused by global warming. I'm sure you've heard stories about this years heat wave being caused by Global warming, the problem with that story is, it doesn't talk about the half of the country that's having a cooler then normal summer! To hell with science, LOGIC would demand that they deal with that. Does science suddenly require the abandonment of logic?
2) I reject the notion that I have to be a "scientist or expert" to evaluate these claims. When the SAME scientist who were featured on a Time Magazine cover piece on global cooling during the 70's talking about the coming "eminent Ice Age" during an abnormally cold winter are now telling me thirty years later that the Earth is going to warm to the point were the climate of Detroit is going to be like Phoenix during a warmer then normal summer, logic DEMANDS I question it!
Science is a business. If you prove you don't have a crisis, you won't get government funding. However, if you bring forth a theory, especially one so intertwined with world economics, that there IS a crisis, you are guaranteed government grants for life.
And of course there are the egocentric people who think that the blink of an eye that the last few thousand of years has been is an accurate snapshot of exactly how the earth always was and always will be... and that somehow, us measly humans can have such a severe long term impact on the earth.
Humans are a fart in a windstorm on this earth. If we went extinct tomorrow, in a couple hundred years you'd never know we were here.
By the way, I lost track. Is butter and eggs bad for you this week?
And of course there are the egocentric people who think that the blink of an eye that the last few thousand of years has been is an accurate snapshot of exactly how the earth always was and always will be... and that somehow, us measly humans can have such a severe long term impact on the earth.
Humans are a fart in a windstorm on this earth. If we went extinct tomorrow, in a couple hundred years you'd never know we were here.
By the way, I lost track. Is butter and eggs bad for you this week?
Industrialism is BEYOND an all-time high. We (yep, ALL of us) pump ridiculous amounts of toxins into this wastebasket we call a planet daily.
For anywone to sit back and just assume the earth (in her all-knowing ability) can just deal with whatever is thrown at her *cough-burk-cough* is (with all due respect) blind and stubborn.
My pool cleans itself up fine if I dump small amount of poo into it. If I dump a few hundred pounds, it loses the ability to self clean. It amazes me that people don't see the planet as having similar limitations!!!
What if all of the Save-the-Earth folk are wrong? NOTHING. If all the little burkes in the world are wrong, then we systematically extinguish a self-sustaining planet.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
For anywone to sit back and just assume the earth (in her all-knowing ability) can just deal with whatever is thrown at her *cough-burk-cough* is (with all due respect) blind and stubborn.
My pool cleans itself up fine if I dump small amount of poo into it. If I dump a few hundred pounds, it loses the ability to self clean. It amazes me that people don't see the planet as having similar limitations!!!
What if all of the Save-the-Earth folk are wrong? NOTHING. If all the little burkes in the world are wrong, then we systematically extinguish a self-sustaining planet.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
It's not relevant. If you eat 'em, and they aren't bad for you, no harm done. If you eat 'em and they are BAD for you, watch out...Diggler said:
If you just AVOID them, we need not worry.
See the similarity?
Eric618 said:It's not relevant. If you eat 'em, and they aren't bad for you, no harm done. If you eat 'em and they are BAD for you, watch out...
If you just AVOID them, we need not worry.
See the similarity?
Yep. All I need to do is stop driving, quit my job and find one in my hometown for 2.5x less money, stop using plastics, stop mowing my lawn, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, no harm will be done. Maybe even join the Voluntary Extinction movement. Oops, too late.
One problem... I like butter and eggs. I don't go nuts and eat a lot of them, but I do enjoy them.
Geoff St. Germaine
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burk48237 said:2) I reject the notion that I have to be a "scientist or expert" to evaluate these claims. When the SAME scientist who were featured on a Time Magazine cover piece on global cooling during the 70's talking about the coming "eminent Ice Age" during an abnormally cold winter are now telling me thirty years later that the Earth is going to warm to the point were the climate of Detroit is going to be like Phoenix during a warmer then normal summer, logic DEMANDS I question it!
Here's the thing. Do you understand why this so-called global cooling didn't happen? You're telling half of the story here. The fact is that there are competing processes resulting from the pollution we spew from our various industries/machines. You can search on such topics as global dimming, sulphate aerosols and the Clean Air Act (1970) to gather some insight.
Inspired by this thread....I plan on eating a meal of eggs and butter, taking a dump in my neighbor's pool and reflecting on how my actions might be of consequence to the Clean Air Act of 1970. If, while doing this, a tropical disturbance gets upgraded to hurricane status, then...well.....you know.
Mike
Mike
burk48237 said:
So, what you're saying is, you're just some random guy who has no idea what's going on, but doesn't like it anyway?
Point #1:
Science is continually changing. Religion will be the same on Wednesday as it was on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday. Science, on the other hand, changes. Better technology = better experiments = better knowledge. People used to think Mars had Martians on it because it had what looked to be artificially made cannals. Upon further inspection, it doesn't. They are dried up rivers or whatver.
Carl Sagan said:
Point #2:
How much time have you spent researching this? Have you looked at the weather patterns over the last 30 or so years? Do you even understand these things (the maps that show them and stuff)? Some people have spent upwards of 9 years in college just so they can continue to study weather and climate.
What you are right now is a guitarist coming up to a bass player and saying "You suck. These tabs are better than anything you can play."
The fact is, most scientists agree that there is global warming. They didn't get together at a Denny's and say "hey, that global warming thing. Let's just say it exists, ok?" "Yeah yeah, that's a good idea."
They agree because they've looked at the facts (the REAL facts, not something Newsweek or Scientific America publishes), and said "well, I can't think of any better explanation for this."
Until they have a better explanation or find out that their data was wrong/misinterpreted, then global warming is the best explanation they have. That's how science works. You don't look at things the way you assume them to be. You look at things the way they are.
Poop-Loops said:
I have never asserted that climate change is not occurring. what I have asserted is that many of these so called experts make a mockery of science by defying logic. The rush to blame every climactic event on Global warming is ABSURD. And if you follow basic logic, if global warming caused the increased hurricane season of 05, then we must have made tremendous progress in 06. I would assert that neither is true and that the prognosticators who made up out of whole cloth the nonsense that hurricane Katrina was caused by global warming do real scientist a huge disservice.
Also if we don't trust the motives of industrialist who are motivated by the almighty dollar, why do we automatically assume that scientist are altruistic when their are millions of dollars of grant money going around? And I guarantee if you check you'll find environmental science to be a growth industry.
For the record the models may be all F***** up anyway! Check out this links comments on Antiartic snowfall and climate models.
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