Glock

[megafiddle]

I actually like the pinkie rest - it makes the gun feel like it's in better control.

I like it also for the same reason. I was more wondering about what you thought of Glock's use of an extension on the magazine (with no extra rounds) instead of a longer grip frame (with an extra round).

That said, I shoot the flat bottomed mag just as well as the extension.

Does Glock make a flat bottomed mag for the 43?

Still, I think a 42 size frame for the 43 would have been real nice.

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[megafiddle]

It's not the grip angle that presents a training issue for most folks, it's actually the bore axis.

A lower bore axis will facilitate greater accuracy, with less practice, for a majority of shooters. The 1911 has a relatively low axis compared to most Glocks, which makes it a more naturally pointable pistol.

Ideal bore axis would be perfectly in line with your index finger (thus impractical or impossible from a design standpoint). A higher one requires more range time to program the brain to compensate.

It's just another variable to be adjusted for and trained through.

The height of the bore axis is a factor I believe, but for different reasons.

First, the bore axis height has virtually no effect on pointability. Grip angle has the most effect on that. A 1911 with an arched mainspring housing points high for me. With a flat mainspring housing it is perfect. Both have the same bore axis height.

A difference in bore axis height mainly requires that you hold the gun slightly higher or lower. You raise or lower your whole arm slightly. This is no different than shooting at a target at a different height.

A difference in grip angle requires that you angle your wrist upward or downward. This can be uncomfortable for certain shooters and certain guns, and a gun that is uncomfortable to hold can be really uncomfortable to shoot.

The main effect of a high bore axis is muzzle flip, and I believe muzzle flip is a major cause of flinching. For the same gun weight and ammunition load, the recoil of the gun with more muzzle flip will feel worse.

Also, muzzle flip makes rapid fire more difficult, although it should have no effect at all on the first shot.

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[HeavyDuty]

I like it also for the same reason. I was more wondering about what you thought of Glock's use of an extension on the magazine (with no extra rounds) instead of a longer grip frame (with an extra round).



Does Glock make a flat bottomed mag for the 43?

Still, I think a 42 size frame for the 43 would have been real nice.

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Yep, the 43 comes with one of each (at least mine did.) I suspect Glock didn't increase capacity for reliability reasons. I'm testing a Pierce +1 extension that is almost exactly the same size as the Glock +0 one, but I'm unlikely to trust it f0r carry any time soon. I'll probably try some destructive drop testing first.

 

[9mmMike]

The height of the bore axis is a factor I believe, but for different reasons.

First, the bore axis height has virtually no effect on pointability. Grip angle has the most effect on that. A 1911 with an arched mainspring housing points high for me. With a flat mainspring housing it is perfect. Both have the same bore axis height.

A difference in bore axis height mainly requires that you hold the gun slightly higher or lower. You raise or lower your whole arm slightly. This is no different than shooting at a target at a different height.

A difference in grip angle requires that you angle your wrist upward or downward. This can be uncomfortable for certain shooters and certain guns, and a gun that is uncomfortable to hold can be really uncomfortable to shoot.

The main effect of a high bore axis is muzzle flip, and I believe muzzle flip is a major cause of flinching. For the same gun weight and ammunition load, the recoil of the gun with more muzzle flip will feel worse.

Also, muzzle flip makes rapid fire more difficult, although it should have no effect at all on the first shot.

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Exactly. This is why many gun manufacturers (and aftermarket as well) now offer interchangeable backstraps that alter the grip angle. And I agree the small, light guns are the worst to control. My bride's Kahr may be "easy" to carry but it is no fun to shoot for extended periods of time. The grip stippling bites, the narrow grip focuses all the recoil into a small spot in your hand, the thing flips like an escaping trout.

 

[Sgt. Rock]

The height of the bore axis is a factor I believe, but for different reasons.

First, the bore axis height has virtually no effect on pointability. Grip angle has the most effect on that. A 1911 with an arched mainspring housing points high for me. With a flat mainspring housing it is perfect. Both have the same bore axis height.

A difference in bore axis height mainly requires that you hold the gun slightly higher or lower. You raise or lower your whole arm slightly. This is no different than shooting at a target at a different height.

A difference in grip angle requires that you angle your wrist upward or downward. This can be uncomfortable for certain shooters and certain guns, and a gun that is uncomfortable to hold can be really uncomfortable to shoot.

The main effect of a high bore axis is muzzle flip, and I believe muzzle flip is a major cause of flinching. For the same gun weight and ammunition load, the recoil of the gun with more muzzle flip will feel worse.

Also, muzzle flip makes rapid fire more difficult, although it should have no effect at all on the first shot.

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I was careful to post that my points were general. Everyone is different. A 1911 points nearly perfect for me, both because of the bore axis and the beavertail. It's been my experience that when handing a novice a pistol and assessing "pointability" the modern 1911 platform seems to work very well compared to various Glocks.

Of course, *every* "issue" can be overcome with training. Solid fundamentals drilled with thousands of rounds down range matters more than any ergonomic issue.

 

[Biggbass]

All this tac tech talk is making my head spin...
I've decided to stick with my Sigs - 220 & 226 - and get a Sam Andrews Monarch instead of a new pistol. There is such a wide variety of availability these days compared to the 80's, when I last purchased, but the bottom line is it's hard to beat a Sig, for me anyway. I sold a great mark 4 1911 to get the 220 because, in my hands, the 220 was more accurate. Plus I found it to have more penetrating power (due to higher chamber pressure). And all these years later it's still the king of .45s for me. And the 226 is it's evil stepsister.

 

[Tbone76]

I know the P238 is a popular unit but for a 380 I'd like to see a higher capacity mag similar to the Browning BDA 380. As far as a 6 or 7 rnd 380 it's hard to beat a PPK/s.

I loved the concealability of my Walther PPK/S when I owned it, but I could never get used to the overly heavy first trigger-press of it. The double-action pull weight was around 18lbs, if I remember it right. Every shot after the initial double-action shot was nice and easy to shoot, but man, the first was a b$&@h! I ended up trading it as a result, plus .380 was really pricey at the time (and hard to come by).

 

[Biggbass]

I loved the concealability of my Walther PPK/S when I owned it, but I could never get used to the overly heavy first trigger-press of it. The double-action pull weight was around 18lbs, if I remember it right. Every shot after the initial double-action shot was nice and easy to shoot, but man, the first was a b$&@h! I ended up trading it as a result, plus .380 was really pricey at the time (and hard to come by).

I bought my PPK/s about 30 years ago and it's still the best concealer I've owned. Boot, pocket, waist, sob, crossdraw, it tucks in anywhere. And for most double action semi-autos that first pull can be heavy but I've never noticed it being any heavier than my Sigs.
In the CHL range test here the DPS requires all first shots from double action SAs to be done from the double pull so the qualifier has to go thru the heavy to light pull transition. Of course, that's good practice for real life situations, should they occur.

 

[Mike A]

Of course, *every* "issue" can be overcome with training. Solid fundamentals drilled with thousands of rounds down range matters more than any ergonomic issue.

Absolutely right... but I only have two Glocks (both 27's,) and far more pistols that "fit" me, so they're defensive pieces only for me. (Less grip on the baby Glocks means less "issue" for me, and I do practice often.)

 

[fretter]

Getting it to the range is a bit cumbersome but hitting the bullseye is no problem

 

[Sgt. Rock]

Absolutely right... but I only have two Glocks (both 27's,) and far more pistols that "fit" me, so they're defensive pieces only for me. (Less grip on the baby Glocks means less "issue" for me, and I do practice often.)

I've been shooting since I was four. I'm a pretty practiced shot and can shoot damn near anything with acceptable accuracy, for both target and defensive purposes. Not bragging, just how it is.

That said, I find it *extremely* difficult to shoot anything that isn't in my hands, and I'd wager that I'm not alone. So if it comes down to my favorite carry piece that can't be concealed in what I'm wearing vs. something else that *can*, it's a pretty easy decision.

Gun people tend to get all wrapped up in the minutiae of their favorite stuff and lose sight of the big picture. The latest gee-whiz technology or hundred year old design does you no good if you can't get rounds on target.

 

[Mike A]

Sounds like we grew up in similar circumstances. I can shoot anything... but I definitely have preferences, like anyone else.

Heck, we were plinking at a steel silhouette at 100 yards this past Saturday with pistols. It took a few shots, but I rang it with the G27

 

[Pilgrim]

For best shooting, it's a tie between the S&W Model 39...

and my 4" Diamondback .38.

Give me wood grips, please, unless I'm using Pachmayrs.

 

[HeavyDuty]

Oooooh... I've wanted a 4" DB since I first handled one in an Ely, MN store in 1975. I had a 6" for a few years, but it just wasn't the same thing - the 4" has exquisite balance. And with the current snakegun prices, I'll probably never get one.

 

[Pilgrim]

Fortunately I got the Colt when human beings could still afford them.

 

[HeavyDuty]

No kidding. Recently I was checking prices on a stainless 4" Python.

 

[Biggbass]

Friend of mine recently sold his 6" blue Python. He's had it since the late 70's. I asked him why he sold it and he said because someone offered him $2500 for it.

 

[Pilgrim]

Friend of mine recently sold his 6" blue Python. He's had it since the late 70's. I asked him why he sold it and he said because someone offered him $2500 for it.

Yeah, at that point you gotta think a bit about what else you can do with that money. I have two or three that I've held onto for 20+ years and it's surprising to see what they're worth on the market.

 

[Biggbass]

After a lot of research and comparisons, then test driving the short list at my local
indoor range, I opted for a PPS-M2. And with my saved up Cabelas points I was able
to get it for $40 out of pocket. Yee-ha. Now the hunt is on for a good holster.

 

[INTP]

Now the hunt is on for a good holster.

If it isn't already on your list, consider a Tucker "The Answer". It's suede/leather/kydex hybrid IWB and is VERY comfortable, and adjusts well to fit. I've had one for about 10 years and it's still going strong. Pricey, but high quality.
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