With the growing number of threads directed towards going direct and lightweight amps I think it’s about time for a thread which brings us back to some punch-you-in-the-chest reality and why some of us will never let go of the heavy iron.
So why full-sized stage amps when running into a FOH system can get you just as loud? In my opinion, the answer to this question is what separates the boys from the men with regards to your sound. Somewhere along the way, the lure of minimalist setups has fooled guitarist and bassists into giving up their beloved stage possessions… namely their amplifiers. In some cases, giving them up totally, and in others trading them for stage monitor versions of their amplifiers. This was done under the thought that ‘it sounds just as good out front’. Well guess what? No, no it doesn’t. It doesn’t in a small bar, and it doesn’t in a concert venue. And, your live playing might take a dive as well. First off, just like cymbals and snare drums real amplifiers reverberate off the walls and ceiling – even in large venues. These reflections come at you in a multi-directional fashion and carry not only realistic characteristics of the amp but also the ‘color’ of the venue which you are playing in. And, it sounds awesome! This akin to a real band vs. a DJ or band in a box. Sound which is originated or largely amplified by the FOH is generally coming from isolated points left and right. And, this is done without the benefit of studio processing where mic placement, reverb, delay and compression have been strategically used to give the illusion of reality. Combine the sound projection coming from a glorified stereo with a flat mix and you are no aural competition for the real deal. Most people may not be able to put their finger on it, but they can tell the sound is kind of… meh, lacking excitement. Well, how about full-sized ‘light weight’ amps? I’m sorry to say, but there is a certain ‘heft’ to the sound of the old school gear. For many reasons it’s the heavy components in transformers, speakers, and cabinets that just can’t be beat when you want the best sound without compromise. In the end, I am certainly not telling anyone what gear you should use – use whatever makes you happy. But, if you’d like some straight talk on how to go directly to some world class sound, go for classic gear. Gear that is sized right for your stage and venue when using the FOH for reinforcement – not your primary sound source. Lean towards tube or solid-state amps with reputations of being work horses. You don’t need to over do it with speaker cabinets, but, bring enough so that your cabinets have plenty of head room to support your sound. There’s a reason why so many touring bass players use 2 4x10’s or an 8x10. Do you need that? No. Will it give you amazing authority, touch sensitivity and headroom? Absolutely. Gear that is undersized takes away your feel. Again, none of this is necessary. But if you’ve reached the point where you and your band just need a great sound than hopefully this helps you find your way. Lastly, while hefty amps and speaker cabinets do play and sound great in all sized venues, they can ruin your hearing and give you tinnitus. This is some serious stuff my brothers. Regardless of your amp size, you should have controlled stage volume and use in ears. Rock on!
I could not disagree more.
I was a fan of big iron and played amps that were thrice my weight for more than a decade.
But.
In my experience the sound of a band gets better when stuff is handled by professionals.
If you are a sound tech that knows how to exactly shape the sound of any given amplifier to accommodate the room in the best possible way - by all means, bring your amp to the bar gig.
The people you posted pictures of are all big enough to have techs (by the way, with the rig behind Tal Wilkenfeld, the right half is not even plugged in).
This is super easy. You can sit in your rehearsal studio, with a ton of gear, and mix and match and route and reroute your signal until you're satisfied. Then you can put it all on a slip of paper and hand it to the people whose job it is to make that rig sound good in a large venue. As long as you're Tim Commerford, Markus Miller, Pino Palladino or Geezer Butler that is no problem. I must admit that I do not have sound techs. Not even one.
On the gigs I play, I have to carry my stuff on stage by myself (way) more often than not.
There will be a DI box lying on the stage floor connected to a XLR cable where the bass is supposed to be.
I'll get a line check and half a minute of EQ/Compression.
And here comes the good bit: If I bring the big rig and set it up, I will have to ask myself a VERY important question. If I set my volume so it interferes with FOH, how do I set my amp in terms of placement and EQ. Do I want it to sound good for me or do I want it to sound good for the audience?
Because in 9 out of 10 times, I can't have both. Especially in smaller venues. When my amp is set to carry the room, my stage sound is . . . to omit strong wording . . . less desirable than I'd wish.
I'm one of those people that want the band sound good out front. So I set my amp to carry the venue and try for the middle ground between people in the front getting a good dose and people in the back drowning in bass. Luckily, I'm playing with a rather dark sound, so I don't have as much to worry with beam patterns as the guitar players have if they want to use their amps to carry.
Now that I've set that, I've basically locked down FOH. If the drummer gets enthusiastic during the second half of the show, FOH can not raise my signal. They can raise everything else that is run through them, but then the mix sounds bad.
It can be done, sure. It is done by the big names in the business. If Joe Average thinks that this is the true way of playing to people and insists on bringing the same rig that some rockstar bass player gets paid for endorsing, has sitting on stage and oftentimes not even plugged in, that means the marketing company of that brand is doing their job well. It does not mean Joe Average is right in bringing a dual 8x10 rig to a bar gig.
The formula is easy. You can sound like you do in your rehearsal space by running only vocals and acoustic instruments without sufficient volume through PA while the rest is coming from the instrument amplifiers.
Remember that you're not standing in a circle and that you're not the focus of your amps. If you want to play that place again, the sound in the crowd should have the focus. It won't be as enjoyable as having a proper sound is.
Everything else, where more than the bare minimum is run through FOH, the quality of your sound is out of your hands. The sound techs are responsible for the sound now.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
1. If the sound tech is bad, your band will sound bad. Period.
2. If the sound tech is good, your band will only sound bad if you ruin it for them (they will tell you of you do).
3. If the sound tech is mediocre, there is a limited amount of problems they can overcome. Go out of your way to keep that pile as small as you possibly can. If you add vanity and ego related stuff to their list, it's likely that things go south that would not have needed to.
You're in this with these people. Talk to them. If that sound tech is superb at mixing bass from a dry DI signal and very bad at mic'ing bass cabs, yet you insist on getting your cab mic'ed, your resulting sound will often be worse than the sound you would have gotten if you followed the way they felt better with ... (a friend of mine, who is a very good sound tech and FOH guy will, if you insist on a mic'ed bass cab, offer to do a blend between DI and mic. He will then proceed to put a mic in front of your cab and blend the signal with the DI signal. The blend will always be the same: 0/100. The funny thing is, I've witnessed once that after the show, the bass player, after talking to people that knew the band, came to the FOH desk and told him that he just received a ton of compliments on his sound which has been stellar and let that be a lesson ... I don't know how my friend was able to keep a straight face and nod in agreement.).
