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Double Bass Good Doubling Rig

B

bassnutj

Dec 26, 2007
168
0
#1
I'm in the market for a good rig for playing upright and electric on the same gig. Music is modern jazz/groove stuff. I want something light, portable, easy to use, and sounds good. Maybe a 2 channel head so I can eq one for electric and one for upright.
I'm thinking a 1x12 cab but maybe it would be too weak for the electric stuff. 1x15 maybe?
Until now I've used a GK1x12 combo.
 
#2
There are a number of light-weight, two channel heads out there:
Walter woods (excellent. very expensive! $2K+!)
Acoustic Image (Excellent, feature-packed, many users say it's not as good for electric without an additional pre, but there are many easy options for this. Cheaper but still over $1K.
Markbass LMK- (larger format, but still light weight, a little cheaper, lower impedance inputs may require the addition of a preamp for uprights using a piezo pick up. Not as feature packed as the Acoustic Image but I think they are much cheaper.)
Euphonic Audio Micro 300 (super light and portable, but not a lot of power. I've never used one but many players seem to be happy.)
Eden 1205 World Tour- I haven't heard from anyone using this for upright but I suspect that it has all the power you could ever want for electric. The specs on input impedence make it seem to me that upright with a piezo is possibe. Larger format and over 20 lbs. still not cheap- Around $1200 used)
Aguilar makes a 2 channel head but I have no experience with it. Some one posted a while back about using this for doubling so do a search.
As for speakers, I think that you might be suprised at what a single 12" can do these days. The Epifani UL112 is reportedly VERY loud. The Berg HT112 is smaller but still has excellent output and even tone for upright. There are many other choices.
I use a walter woods ultra and a bergantino HT112. Certainly not the most affordable option. Occasionally in situations that are really loud (and challenging for upright no matter what speaker you use) I wish that I had more output from the Berg cab- but most of the time I'm really happy with it. I use an epifani UL310 for many of those situations and though much bigger, it gets the job done with headroom to spare. If you are really concerned about volume and don't mind a larger cab I think that there are a number of 2x10 cabs to consider (Euphonic audio NL210, Epifani UL210, begantino AE210, etc.) larger, but still lightweight.
Many others have posted looking for the same info. as you so do a search or search for some of the products listed above.
 
#3
Yes, try searching a bit. For example, just looking at titles of threads in this forum, I found these:

this

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370177

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363901

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359563

FWIW, I use an Acoustic Image Focus 2R. But you can do things like put a SansAmp BDDI for EB in the effects loop of a single channel head too. Like http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334068. Brilliant.

My experience trying different speakers is not as broad as some other folks here, but I like the EA Wizzy and Wizzy M-line for both DB and EB. They have 12" drivers and sound excellent IMO.
 
#4
Had another thought. Do you like your GK combo for upright and slab? If so, you could get more of the same sound by adding their 112MBX extension cab for under $300.

You'd be dealing with a single set of EQ controls for both instruments on the amp. But if that's acceptable, there are some good threads in this forum about using various A/B type pedals for switching. Come to think of it, some pedals like the Radial Tonebone Bassbone would actually provide separate EQ for each channel.
 
#5
I don't play much slab anymore, but I've been happy with a Clarus 2r SIII and a M-Line Wizzy. Sounds like a lot of guys who double just throw a pre in for electric and are really happy. If you need more power there is always the Focus. I'd really consider an AI, there features make them great for upright (I love the combo inputs and phantom power for quiet gigs where I just want to use a mic).
Cheers,
John
 
#8
I think Christian McBride would sound like Christian McBride no matter what amp or speaker he used. And I hate to break it to you, but IMO using the same gear he does will not suddenly make you sound like he does. I think this is especially true with upright.

I don't put much stock in what gear particular players are paid to endorse. Or glossy brochures or blurbs on manufacturer's and retailer's web sites. IMO this web site is a better and more reliable source of information with real life "endorsements" from players with a wide variety of experience and ability levels.

That said, I'm just a part-time pro w/ largely unremarkable credentials. So I could be all wet.
 
#9
bolo said:
I think Christian McBride would sound like Christian McBride no matter what amp or speaker he used. And I hate to break it you, but IMO using the same gear he does will not suddenly make you sound like he does. I think this is especially true with upright.
Click to expand...

So, wouldn't I sound like me no matter what amp I used also?
I'm just asking what people think of Epifani stuff....
 
#11
I really like my Euphonic Audio micro 300.
Two channels with EQ on each, and 300w, and fits in my string bass bag.
I use an EA CXL110 or 112 with this head. Haven't had to try both speakers together yet.

If you are playing really loud, it might not be enough for you, but so far this rig's worked well for me.

Laurence
 
#12
bassnutj said:
Interesting.
What do you guys think of Christian McBride's setup? I think he's using an Epifani head and some of their cabs....
Click to expand...
bassnutj said:
I'm just asking what people think of Epifani stuff....
Click to expand...
The way you asked though just seemed like you were asking about Epifani because that's what Christian McBride uses.

Okay, I've ingested the hydrocodone (Vicodin). Recent leg and back injury.

Here's what I know, FWIW. The Epi 10's and 12's are pretty popular cabs in this forum, the 10's probably even moreso for DB. The few times I've heard their UL-110 in person with upright I thought it was surprisingly deep sounding for such a small cab. Their larger multi-driver cabs pop up some here too, but not so much. Moreso for EB I think, and for louder gigs than I do. Their UL-502 head shows up now and again too, often as a solution for doubling w/ DB and EB. Search a bit if you want more. This forum is a great resource, despite the occasional cantankerous poster. :D
 
#13
Thanks Steve for your input; I didn't mean that as a swipe at you; just saying I'm not necessarily trying to copy Christian's tone live, just curious if anyone was using the same rig. I'm sure most of his live stuff is through the house anyway, a luxury we don't all have.;)
An Epifani 1x12 seems like an idea, but I wonder if it's botttom heavy enough for EB?
Has anyone tried any aguilar stuff? I think John Patitucci uses it....
 
#14
bolo said:
I think Christian McBride would sound like Christian McBride no matter what amp or speaker he used. And I hate to break it to you, but IMO using the same gear he does will not suddenly make you sound like he does. I think this is especially true with upright.

I don't put much stock in what gear particular players are paid to endorse. Or glossy brochures or blurbs on manufacturer's and retailer's web sites. IMO this web site is a better and more reliable source of information with real life "endorsements" from players with a wide variety of experience and ability levels.

That said, I'm just a part-time pro w/ largely unremarkable credentials. So I could be all wet.
Click to expand...
I saw CM a few of months ago (good show BTW), and he was using an SWR WM 4004 amp and an SWR WM 4x10 cab, which were no doubt rented for the show or for this very short tour. He sounded like Christian McBride.

As for the original question about a doubling rig, I really like the Wizzy M-Line. Very versatile and sounds good for both DB and EB, can get surprising loud even with a modest amount of amp power, and is reasonably compact, light weight and easy to transport.

I really like my Walter Woods amp for DB and EB. In fact, it's one of the few amps I've heard that sounds great for both instruments. It even sounds good for vintage bass guitars with passive electronics, which very few modern amps do IMO. The WW amps can be very expensive, but if you look around you could find a good deal on one. I did.

If you like the GK sound and are on a tight budget, a used GK 400RB could sound good for both instruments and will get pretty darned loud with a Wizzy M. There are a ton of these amps out there and can usually be had for around $200 or less. Drawbacks are only one channel and rather heavy compared to many current mini amps.
 
#15
An Epifani 1x12 seems like an idea, but I wonder if it's botttom heavy enough for EB?


In a word- yes. In fact the reason I chose the Bergantino HT112 instead of the Epifani UL112 is because I think the Epifani has too much depth. It's probably a better electric bass choice, and lighter, too. Lots of folks here report great results with upright. Check out Tom Bowlus' "1x12 cab shoot out" for really great descriptions of a number of different cabs. Keep in mind though that the decriptions there are for the 'series 1' epifani drivers- they recently changed their speaker manufacturer (thus the series II label) and a few people prefer one over the other for various reasons.
If this is your cab choice, I'd personally recommend getting a used series I cab, but I'm sure you'd be impressed at the output and depth of tone in either speaker.
 
#16
I have a UL 210. i think it is very good for doubling. The only problem is it's size. It is very bulky even though it only weighs 35 lbs which makes it overkill for 90% of upright gigs. The only head I haven't liked paired with it is Mark Bass head from my cmd 121p. The cab sounds better with my electric than my upright. However, I have not tried it with a low B. I am curious how it would do in loud volume situaations with a low B.
 
#17
robgrow said:
As for the original question about a doubling rig, I really like the Wizzy M-Line. Very versatile and sounds good for both DB and EB, can get surprising loud even with a modest amount of amp power, and is reasonably compact, light weight and easy to transport.

I really like my Walter Woods amp for DB and EB. In fact, it's one of the few amps I've heard that sounds great for both instruments. It even sounds good for vintage bass guitars with passive electronics, which very few modern amps do IMO. The WW amps can be very expensive, but if you look around you could find a good deal on one. I did.

If you like the GK sound and are on a tight budget, a used GK 400RB could sound good for both instruments and will get pretty darned loud with a Wizzy M. There are a ton of these amps out there and can usually be had for around $200 or less. Drawbacks are only one channel and rather heavy compared to many current mini amps.
Click to expand...

Robgrow, I really agree w/ you about the Wizzy M-line 12 and the WW.

But IMHO GK heads, while delivering clean power, are very brittle souding for BG and are electric and brittle sounding for DB.
Plus if you need to get one fixed it's a real PITA.

A better used, good sounding budget head for doubling might be a an old Yorkville/Traynor or Hartdke head.
I once picked up a portable used 150W Trace Elliot
that sounds great for for like $350.

FWIW- I own a Aguilar 112 cab and used it for years for doubling. Nice, but not the Wizzy M-line which can get amazingly loud, sounds deeper for BG, has much better mids for DB and is like 11 lbs. lighter for you back...OK it's like $150 or so more than the Aguilar, but worth it :cool:.

Bolo, may your healing be fast. Easy on those Vicodins :).

Bri
 
#18
bribass said:
Robgrow, I really agree w/ you about the Wizzy M-line 12 and the WW.

But IMHO GK heads, while delivering clean power, are very brittle souding for BG and are electric and brittle sounding for DB.
Plus if you need to get one fixed it's a real PITA.

A better used, good sounding budget head for doubling might be a an old Yorkville/Traynor or Hartdke head.
I once picked up a portable used 150W Trace Elliot
that sounds great for for like $350.

FWIW- I own a Aguilar 112 cab and used it for years for doubling. Nice, but not the Wizzy M-line which can get amazingly loud, sounds deeper for BG, has much better mids for DB and is like 11 lbs. lighter for you back...OK it's like $150 or so more than the Aguilar, but worth it :cool:.
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific. I'm talking about the older series II GK 400RB, which were made in the early to mid 90's, not the newer series III or current series IV, which just don't have the same sound. I have a series II 400RB and it sounds very good for BG: very warm and not the least bit brittle. It's one of my favorite amps for old Fenders. Sounds good for DB too. I really don't like the sound of GK's newer amps at all, with the exception of the MB150S. Just my opinion of course.
 
#19
Just to throw in to the confusion....
I agree that the Epi cabs (UL112, UL210) don't do it for me
with the upright, but kill for electric bass. Too much big lows.
I use the Berg HT112 and an AI Focus for doubling gigs, with
a Sansamp Para DI for the elctric. Very nice. For bigger gigs,
I use an Epi UL310. (oh baby!)
It really depends on the music you're playing. I don't use the
Berg for most electric gigs because it lacks the big lows
needed to support the band. imho
 
#20
A few things to add:

Christian actually uses a Glockenklang Soul as a head, even though you see the UL502 on his web site.

I've found that most DB pickups sound really bad with the UL502, most likely due to the 570k input impedence. I have since sold that amp because of it, although it's a great EB head. UL110/UL112 combo is a nice mix although like others stated I find the UL112 on it's own to be bass heavy for DB.

I can't speak highly enough about the Glockenklang stuff for DB and EB. It hasn't really caught on to the DB world here on TB but it kills with both.

I also have a Focus which has some really nice features like the HPF, effects and combo jack to use with a mic and of course it's light weight and compactness. It functions as a compact PA when neccesary if you do a gig with a vocalist and acoustic piano or something, you can also mix a mic and pick up or use the two channels for EB or DB. It can't touch the Glock in my opnion though.

I find the EA NL210 to be a great cabinet for doubling and at 36lbs I don't think you can really beat it.

If I was to do it all over again I'd go with a 4ohm NL210 and a Glockenklang Soul II.
 

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