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Got fired from my church gig...
- Thread starter Brad Johnson
- Start date
they will, mark my words. at which point i'd quote them a ridiculous price.I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually obtuse enough to ask me to sub again.
this is why i don't do church gigs. they are so full of politics that it makes the bigtime recording business look fair by comparison.
Organizations are always about power, and churches are especially about exercising power. I guess these people in "authority" decided controlling your soul wasn't enough, so they went for your music too. Shame on them! They'll get their reward when they end up in a place with harmonic distortion and bad notes for eternity.
Susinctly..
Many rooms are built for the male human voice.. the not built for rock music.
You're playing to a mixed crowd (different expectations) some hate loud music.
Rooms are big.. balance is an issue.
Amps (where ever) must be compensated by the sound crew.
===
Jimmy you're right... it is a lot of PR.... can be super rewarding when done right.
I sincerely don't beleieve it's about power in this case..
It really sounds as if it's more of circumventing the IEM fund raising...
And then not being clear about advance material.
That sounds like a hell of a church... $200K for a sound system? What happened to feeding po folks?
If I understand most of this, you've gotten quite a lot of this wrong. It's understandable.
They hate the word "band". I was told that explicitly.
The musicians were pro caliber. Either playing professionally or easily on that level. This clearly was not in your 90%.
And those were? I was told by both the MM and the one just before him that the church decided to go with the most expensive proprosal they got. For that reason. What battles are you referring to?
I played there for a year prior to going salaried and I had no problems.
Huh? there was no research to make it work, for anyone versed in sound this wasn't a hard problem to remedy...but you did have to actually try.
So far I'd say that you're the one doing that. No offense, just an observation.
Really? How exactly does that stop a neophyte from pushing buttons in the middle of a service? He was still doing it the last Sunday I was there.
The expectation was set by him early on. It was discussed several times in rehearsal afterwards. It got better but there were still issues.
Maybe you're referring to a perfect world. IRL IME sometimes there are things you simply have to deal with to get a job done.
To what? If what they paid for wasn't working, which they knew, what was I not paying attention to?
Wrong. In fact my friend told me that maybe they were used to someone who didn't do that. Maybe I was to blunt when I gave direct answers to direct questions.
The leadership consisted of the MM and the Pastor. Period. That's it. I talked to them, not around them. Where did you even come up with that?
Tell me how I was supposed to do that when the only time the sound guy was there was at the Sunday service? The MM said on several oocassions that we could get together and try to sort this out with everyone and I was available WHENEVER THEY WANTED TO DO IT. Yet it never happened becuase they'd decide not to and talk about trying something else.
It's pretty presumptuous to say what I should've done based on what you don't know, isn't it?
LOL. Tell me about my background?
If by IEM you mean in ear monitor, that's a leap. Who said anything about IEM's?
The drummer tried using his personal IEM setup and the soundguy blew it up in the middle of a service.
Expectations were perfectly clear up front. I was to do what I had been doing satisfactorily for the year leading up to going on salary. The only things that changed were:
1. The decision to use powered monitors only and share them. I told them about the typical issues with that before they made the change.
2. The hiring of the new MD.
Other than the people I talked to, there was no one else to. The pastor has absolute power in this particular church.
I have no idea what that means.
They weren't a mismatch for the year leading up to this. This wasn't about any sort of "match" IMO. I've spoken with most of the other musicians and they agree.
They hate the word "band". I was told that explicitly.
The musicians were pro caliber. Either playing professionally or easily on that level. This clearly was not in your 90%.
And those were? I was told by both the MM and the one just before him that the church decided to go with the most expensive proprosal they got. For that reason. What battles are you referring to?
I played there for a year prior to going salaried and I had no problems.
Huh? there was no research to make it work, for anyone versed in sound this wasn't a hard problem to remedy...but you did have to actually try.
So far I'd say that you're the one doing that. No offense, just an observation.
Really? How exactly does that stop a neophyte from pushing buttons in the middle of a service? He was still doing it the last Sunday I was there.
The expectation was set by him early on. It was discussed several times in rehearsal afterwards. It got better but there were still issues.
Maybe you're referring to a perfect world. IRL IME sometimes there are things you simply have to deal with to get a job done.
To what? If what they paid for wasn't working, which they knew, what was I not paying attention to?
Wrong. In fact my friend told me that maybe they were used to someone who didn't do that. Maybe I was to blunt when I gave direct answers to direct questions.
The leadership consisted of the MM and the Pastor. Period. That's it. I talked to them, not around them. Where did you even come up with that?
Tell me how I was supposed to do that when the only time the sound guy was there was at the Sunday service? The MM said on several oocassions that we could get together and try to sort this out with everyone and I was available WHENEVER THEY WANTED TO DO IT. Yet it never happened becuase they'd decide not to and talk about trying something else.
It's pretty presumptuous to say what I should've done based on what you don't know, isn't it?
LOL. Tell me about my background?
If by IEM you mean in ear monitor, that's a leap. Who said anything about IEM's?
The drummer tried using his personal IEM setup and the soundguy blew it up in the middle of a service.
Expectations were perfectly clear up front. I was to do what I had been doing satisfactorily for the year leading up to going on salary. The only things that changed were:
1. The decision to use powered monitors only and share them. I told them about the typical issues with that before they made the change.
2. The hiring of the new MD.
Other than the people I talked to, there was no one else to. The pastor has absolute power in this particular church.
I have no idea what that means.
They weren't a mismatch for the year leading up to this. This wasn't about any sort of "match" IMO. I've spoken with most of the other musicians and they agree.
Brad -
I have been a performing bassist for 29 years and a volunteer bassist on my current church's worship team for the past 10 years, during which I have also subbed for various other churches. During that time I have experienced some of the frustrations you have, albeit to a much lesser degree. From what I have experienced and you have said, I can tell you that the church you've been describing has serious issues that go way beyond its music ministry and which, if not addressed, will cause that entire organization to eventually implode (not that you haven't already figured that out).
If your market is like mine, there are probably 8 to 10 churches that would love to have a player of your talent and expertise on their team right now. You have made every good-faith effort to accommodate, but there are a lot bigger things going on in that congregation than you can "fix" (or need to). Scripture says if you have exhausted all reasonable efforts at reconciliation within a church environment, you are to have nothing more to do with the offending party(ies) and it sounds like there are several offenders here. My advice would be to walk away from this thing with a clear conscience, keep working on your craft and praying where God wants to put you next.
I have been a performing bassist for 29 years and a volunteer bassist on my current church's worship team for the past 10 years, during which I have also subbed for various other churches. During that time I have experienced some of the frustrations you have, albeit to a much lesser degree. From what I have experienced and you have said, I can tell you that the church you've been describing has serious issues that go way beyond its music ministry and which, if not addressed, will cause that entire organization to eventually implode (not that you haven't already figured that out).
If your market is like mine, there are probably 8 to 10 churches that would love to have a player of your talent and expertise on their team right now. You have made every good-faith effort to accommodate, but there are a lot bigger things going on in that congregation than you can "fix" (or need to). Scripture says if you have exhausted all reasonable efforts at reconciliation within a church environment, you are to have nothing more to do with the offending party(ies) and it sounds like there are several offenders here. My advice would be to walk away from this thing with a clear conscience, keep working on your craft and praying where God wants to put you next.
Are we reading the same thread?
I think you and the MM would get along great. Neither one of you have a clue....
Brad--you were a threat to the feifdom, plain and simple. It sounds like the pastor and MM deserve each other. If it didn't happen this month, it would have happened eventually.
Now, you'll either find a better gig, or you'll have Sundays to enjoy the weather. Win/win.
Now, you'll either find a better gig, or you'll have Sundays to enjoy the weather. Win/win.
This is typical of large or up and coming churches around here. A cousin of mine was proud that his pastor went to a music store and bought a grand piano that was more expensive than the one at the Kennedy Center. As he said with actual glee: "Pastor paid cash!"
I got alot of unsolicited info about the church...the MM loved to gossip. They had a 50th year celebration for the pastor a couple of years back... it was six months long and they spent over $90k. Hey, it's their money. Plus hundreds of thousands in settlements over the years. And so on.
I try not to dwell on these things... it makes the job easier.
Thanks. Someone will clue me in as to what's going on there, so who knows. I've already been told I lied on the MM at the meeting in reference to the amp... despite him saying he asked me to bring one.
I have a praise gig as well, and the leader during our session is a complete dope.
He tells me not to bring my upright because our classical guitar player doesn't like playing with an upright. I say 'Why?'. He replied, 'I don't know. He just doesn't'.
So I ask the guitarist and he says he said nothing of that.
So I tell the leader that I'm bringing my DB because what he said was false. He just said okay.
Two days later, the drummer, one of my best friends, tells me not to bring the DB because the practice will be short, and the leader told him to say this. I tell him that it takes me more time to set up the plank. So, my friend tells the leader, and the leader says that I can bring it then.
This leader has cancelled practices repeatedly, and has always been a confusing buggart.
But, OP, your problem is way worse. They sound like a bunch of clowns.
He tells me not to bring my upright because our classical guitar player doesn't like playing with an upright. I say 'Why?'. He replied, 'I don't know. He just doesn't'.
So I ask the guitarist and he says he said nothing of that.
So I tell the leader that I'm bringing my DB because what he said was false. He just said okay.
Two days later, the drummer, one of my best friends, tells me not to bring the DB because the practice will be short, and the leader told him to say this. I tell him that it takes me more time to set up the plank. So, my friend tells the leader, and the leader says that I can bring it then.
This leader has cancelled practices repeatedly, and has always been a confusing buggart.
But, OP, your problem is way worse. They sound like a bunch of clowns.
I read through your stuff and have been through this countless times.
"Band"
Symantics.. they probably called it a worship team. They don't want a democracy.. they want a benevolant dictator.
Musicianship.
IF truely pro.. they would have done exactly as asked.. this is what they wanted.
IEM Battles
Going through committees and fund raising to get the cash -- someone claimed the $200k would fix ti.
"I played there for a year prior to going salaried and I had no problems."
New leader=new rules.
Sound System.
This is where the finesse and background homework comes in. MOST congregationd veto the consulting and RTA work... unfortunately they clutch to hardware.
Neophite.
This is the finesese issue again... volunteers or staff many times don't know what they don't know. Unfortunately churches are plagued with this.
Guessing there were multiple issues going on common to pro audio.
Expectations.
I'm a total church dork. I require 5 working days to review supplied charts (as bad as CCLI charts are) and MP3s... I'll then send a note 48 hours in advance to the minister AND church council elders if materials are not received. (it doesn't matter how in my sleep I can nail a Lincoln Brewster, Fred Hammond or Mississippi Mass tune)
"IME sometimes there are things you simply have to deal with to get a job done."
In a church setting much stuff slides as everyone waits till a boiling piont.. bring it up early.
Gear..
Their stuff probably was 100% functional to design.. there were other deeper issues.. (guessing) .. much of this has to do with Expensive staff or consulting parts of the installation.
Leadership
True leadership of a congregation normally is the elder council and those with checkbooks... not the minister and MM.. they both get fired.
Presumptuous.
Not at all.. I do this stuff (church gigs) all the time.. church PR is cookie cutter and very predictable. Gigging churches is more PR than talent.
IEM
"If by IEM you mean in ear monitor, that's a leap. Who said anything about IEM's?"
I did.. the way to move the sound (for you to the next step) is a non amplified signal to an IEM.. you could have controlled your own variables and cleaned the sound. .. geeze I would have sent you a free article I wrote for Worship Bassist going step by step on how to do this.
Summary.
It's common in an organization for the new manager to rotate staff and execute prior requests.
Unfortunately internet is not a great place to dialogue (due to typing constraints)
Like an earlier poster... I'm unsure if you're trying to get a shoulder to cry on or learn what's the underlying.
"Band"
Symantics.. they probably called it a worship team. They don't want a democracy.. they want a benevolant dictator.
Musicianship.
IF truely pro.. they would have done exactly as asked.. this is what they wanted.
IEM Battles
Going through committees and fund raising to get the cash -- someone claimed the $200k would fix ti.
"I played there for a year prior to going salaried and I had no problems."
New leader=new rules.
Sound System.
This is where the finesse and background homework comes in. MOST congregationd veto the consulting and RTA work... unfortunately they clutch to hardware.
Neophite.
This is the finesese issue again... volunteers or staff many times don't know what they don't know. Unfortunately churches are plagued with this.
Guessing there were multiple issues going on common to pro audio.
Expectations.
I'm a total church dork. I require 5 working days to review supplied charts (as bad as CCLI charts are) and MP3s... I'll then send a note 48 hours in advance to the minister AND church council elders if materials are not received. (it doesn't matter how in my sleep I can nail a Lincoln Brewster, Fred Hammond or Mississippi Mass tune)
"IME sometimes there are things you simply have to deal with to get a job done."
In a church setting much stuff slides as everyone waits till a boiling piont.. bring it up early.
Gear..
Their stuff probably was 100% functional to design.. there were other deeper issues.. (guessing) .. much of this has to do with Expensive staff or consulting parts of the installation.
Leadership
True leadership of a congregation normally is the elder council and those with checkbooks... not the minister and MM.. they both get fired.
Presumptuous.
Not at all.. I do this stuff (church gigs) all the time.. church PR is cookie cutter and very predictable. Gigging churches is more PR than talent.
IEM
"If by IEM you mean in ear monitor, that's a leap. Who said anything about IEM's?"
I did.. the way to move the sound (for you to the next step) is a non amplified signal to an IEM.. you could have controlled your own variables and cleaned the sound. .. geeze I would have sent you a free article I wrote for Worship Bassist going step by step on how to do this.
Summary.
It's common in an organization for the new manager to rotate staff and execute prior requests.
Unfortunately internet is not a great place to dialogue (due to typing constraints)
Like an earlier poster... I'm unsure if you're trying to get a shoulder to cry on or learn what's the underlying.
Poor leadership is rampant on church gigs..
Unfortunately knowing how to manage the manager is the true skill .. not bass
Unfortunately knowing how to manage the manager is the true skill .. not bass
Thanks. I do have a clear conscience in this matter and while I do wonder if the MM does, though I can't really dwell on that.
While I had been frustrated with the oinstage sound I had already reconciled myself to the fact that that's how it would be. I played with a smile on my face and in my heart. I got fired in spite of that and honestly when I got the text I laughed out loud. Figures. Maybe I tried too hard.
Frankly drama like this is exactly what I try to avoid IRL. I'm the guy that typically gets hired when you really want one less thing to worry about. People know my work ethic and it usually keeps me busy. As to performing at another church, I don't know... after a while it just gets old and I don't want to get to the point where I feel like I should expect bad behavior.
Settlements?! Jeez-o-pete, that right there is a red flag as big as Texas.
Sounds like a church with money up the wazoo, but ignorant (at best) or malevolent (at worst) leadership. With a whole lot of self-reliance and arrogance thrown in just for yuks.
Eventually that church is gonna crash and burn -- hard -- and you don't wanna be around when that happens.
Bummer on being out the $1200 or so a month? For the gig... Amps are scary in the church world sometimes --- you can be "too loud" just by showing up...also --- and I'm sure this will resonate with Church Bass Players... You can be having an awesome praise and worship session --- people clapping...praising God --- just wonderful...and many folks saying "wow, that was great" and "we needed that" and "why don't we do that more often"...but all it takes is one or two people and sometimes JUST ONE person to say "it's too loud"...boo hoo...it was just too loud for little ol me...that is so frustrating...so any amp is "too loud".
Churches are organizations full of people - and because of that they are flawed just like any other people run organization - the danger is that the expectation are different because it's a church/religious setting and you may even have your "guard down" because of it.
In your situation - and this is just a guess -- it really doesn't matter what the sound is like or whatever --- the details don't matter - "they" want you out of there and you are gone and that's that...most likely the new music director has someone else in mind for the bass position and there will be more changes coming soon. At least you were getting paid - I know a lot of people that have put up with bad church situations for free (myself included).
Take it as a blessing in disguise - and move on bro.
Regards,
MegaDoc
Churches are organizations full of people - and because of that they are flawed just like any other people run organization - the danger is that the expectation are different because it's a church/religious setting and you may even have your "guard down" because of it.
In your situation - and this is just a guess -- it really doesn't matter what the sound is like or whatever --- the details don't matter - "they" want you out of there and you are gone and that's that...most likely the new music director has someone else in mind for the bass position and there will be more changes coming soon. At least you were getting paid - I know a lot of people that have put up with bad church situations for free (myself included).
Take it as a blessing in disguise - and move on bro.
Regards,
MegaDoc
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