Got fired from my church gig...

[joebar]

First let me say this is not against or for any religeous beliefs

Here is my take on this First are you playing at church becaus you are a beliver or just the money? If its just the money C'est la vi- If you are a beliver the next time you are in that situation- just point out how unrighteous the MM is I MEAN GO THROUGH THE LIST in front of the entire congregation and if they do not do the right thing then YOU should not be there! I am no-ways perfect but I hate hypocrisy !

that is the problem with churches per se; i have seen some where if you were to do something like this and make a spectacle, then you might risk a lightning bolt striking you or something- or that's at least what is implicated to keep congregations timid. i have felt the fear.
i agree, but you never see these types of confrontations take place in front of congregations; they would have you removed so fast it makes your head spin. i have seen a lot over the years and even now in reflection, i realize how little God must have had to do with it in the places i have attended.
Lord please forgive us for being so misguided by our own agendas and power struggles and oh yeah, lest we forget... the almighty dollar!

 

[Jools4001]

Good grief! I'm continually amazed by the church in the US. Big sound systems? Lighting and video? Musical Directors? Paid musicians? Over here the music in churches is usually provided by a white haired 90 year old woman playing lots of fluffed notes on a wheezy old pipe organ; and the only feedback from the sound system is when their hearing aid whistles.

 

[txbasschik]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

 

[Rocker949]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

+1

 

[Dr. Cheese]

THe bit about getting a nice sound system, and then having no one to run it is very familiar to me. I also have dealt with the no amps on stage bit too. I only work for a token amount of money, so I am under less pressure, but it amazes me that folks don't see the necessity to properly operate the sound system.

 

[Jazzerbone]

I would've quit that one a long time ago. They've got major issues. So many churches are desperate for good bass players, you'll find one that fits you better.

 

[jbalou02]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

This wins.

 

[Albatross]

hypocrites. i hate people who invoke god's name in order to enrich themselves. it's preying on the weak-minded.

i think someone need attention......none of your post are to help out or to add anything to the op's story, it's just to rip churches.
we get it.

 

[turindev]

Unfortunately all it takes is a person (or two in your case) taking their eyes off of what they are there to do and putting them on themselves and their own goals. Bleh.

Sorry to hear about all of this Brad.. I have been involved in similar political mayhem at churches before, although not as bad. Thankfully I am in a very good situation now, couldn't be around a better bunch of folks.. I wish the same to you. Actually I wish you lived around here, we need more bass players

 

[jaywa]

slightly OT, (and before this devolves into a religion-bashing thread and gets locked), but there's a saying in pro audio circles that churches always buy their sound systems 3 times.

first they try to just scrape together used junk for no money.

then they get convinced that more=better and spend a ton on stuff, all with no clue how to install or run it.

finally, someone figures out that there's actual skill and knowledge involved and gets a proper system, properly deployed and run.

This is what happened in my church... exactly.

 

[steveksux]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

Kind of like lawyers. Nothing wrong with the concept, as far as the concept goes its great, everyone deserves a good defense attorney when accused of a crime.

Just that the lawyers spoil it. There's some good lawyers out there. You just never hear about them..

Randy

 

[jive1]

As someone who know Brad's personally, and has heard the cat play, I'd like to add some things to this discussion.

In this area, you will be hard pressed to find a bass player who has a better ear and the ability to pick up songs on the fly. There's a number of killing players around here that would gladly trade their chops for Brad's ear and memory for songs. It's pretty scary when Brad will nail the bass line, melody or horn part to a jingle from a 70s commercial that someone mentions in passing.

And as you guys may know from TB, he knows his gear and how to use it.

So, I find alot of what is said about him to be laughable if you know him as a musician.


On the other hand, the disorganization of music, the lack of charts, changing of material on the fly, keyboard players who play things differently than the chart, playing a different key than listed, getting songs the night before service (if even at all), and all those other challenges are pretty much par for the course for Gospel.

Gospel is not like Contemporary Christian Music (CCM), where the worship leader downloads charts from CCLI and has them ready for the band. I asked two of the top Gospel bassists in this area if it was unusual to play at church without charts, and they just laughed at me. They both said that in decades of playing, they rarely had a chart and if they ever did, they never stuck to it. The value of a Gospel musician very much relies in their ability to pick things up on the fly and make it move.

Some of the issues that Brad talks about are non-issues to me in that it's really common in the Gospel music scene and musicians in the scene have been able to work around it effectively. But, when they say he can't pick up the material and doesn't know the sound, then that's just plain, utter, total, BS.

 

[stflbn]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

This pretty much nails it.


If I go to church it is to worship. Not to play. I have no interest in one ruining the other.

.

 

[bradjonesbass]

This is why I do not take church gigs. There are always politics going on behind the scene.

MM was threatened by you because he realized you know more about how to run sound than he does, and he was afraid to look bad in comparison. So...he set you up.

I used to work for a church. That is where I learned that just because someone is a church-going Christian, or even a pastor, that doesn't mean they are a good person, or honest. They'll stab you in the back just like any other bad person.

Churches are funny. You can be fed spiritually, but you can also run into some of the meanest, most spiteful people you could ever encounter. So...I don't work for them in any way, any more, ever, and if I show up, I just listen and don't talk to anyone if I can help it, other than the smallest of small talk. I've been burned over and over by church people, so I stopped hanging around the fire.

Cherie

I was right there with you... until about 10 years ago, when I started attending the church I'm at now. It was my "last chance" church because I'd had enough. I grew up a PK (my dad is a pastor for the uninitiated, PK = Pastor's Kid) and saw more than my share of backstabbing and all around bad behavior from Christians. My dad is one of the greatest people I've ever known, one of those pastors who actually walks the walk he's talking to everybody else about on Sundays. Not going into a lot of detail, but he eventually left the ministry for a while and sold real estate after a particularly bad episode at a church he was at for over 10 years... youth pastor, a couple of "his people", some rumors, and a 3 way church split later and dad was finally through. He's back in ministry now, which is good, but it took him and mom a long time to trust anybody again.

Anyway, this church isn't perfect, by any means, but it's the best place I've ever been associated with. Over 2500 people on Sunday mornings and we still meet in a multi-purpose room (read:glorified gymnasium) because rather than spend money on buildings they give a lot away to the poor and needy. We still have building projects, but they're to meet needs not wants. We built a great children's wing recently, and are in the process of building a new office wing and a small chapel to handle weddings and funerals in a more traditional setting than a gymnasium. We always build with cash and always have, no debt - ever. Pastor and his wife make a decent living but not extravagant by any means - about what you'd expect for two degreed professionals, one with a Master's Degree, in our area, probably significantly less than most with those credentials actually. The rest of the staff is likewise paid fairly well, but not out of the ordinary for their skill and educational level. Intentionally multi-cultural, very diverse racially and economically, no favoritism, etc...

After being ready to be done with churches 10 years ago, I'm now considering going to seminary... Anyway, it takes some looking but there are some really neat churches out there, some big, some small.

 

[SBassman]

I think this is understood by most, but when this stuff comes up, I feel compelled to say: please don't blame God for the bad or stupid people in Christian circles.

There are crummy people out there, and there are great people out there. When we have bad experiences related to worship, as adults we're required to - not blame God, not give up on public worship, but, to try again. And again if necessary.

And, when the time is right, at the right church, to become - part of the solution.

Happy, Peaceful, Blessed Easter.

 

[BigMac5]

Good grief! I'm continually amazed by the church in the US. Big sound systems? Lighting and video? Musical Directors? Paid musicians? Over here the music in churches is usually provided by a white haired 90 year old woman playing lots of fluffed notes on a wheezy old pipe organ; and the only feedback from the sound system is when their hearing aid whistles.

+1

All that money could be used for more worthy causes.

 

[BigMac5]

hypocrites. i hate people who invoke god's name in order to enrich themselves. it's preying on the weak-minded.

So true.

 

[MegaSwing]

They sound blissfully unaware of their own incompetence.

You'll probably be back there someday, because church regimes change just like governments do, and there will be somebody left there who remembers and likes you.

Then they'll move some other poor soul out the door, to make room for you.

That's showbiz for ya.

Thanks for the story, Brad.

 

[Norwegian Bass]

Yeah, this thread has been very interesting. Thanks.

 

[rondohd]

...now I don't go to church at all.......for many of the same reasons......
Cheersl

What he said^